W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-a11y@w3.org > January 2014

RE: figcaption NOT an replacement for alt in HTML5

From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 06:59:06 -0500
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP9186031D298E93B08A26F0FEB80@phx.gbl>
To: "'Steve Faulkner'" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, "'Alastair Campbell'" <acampbell@nomensa.com>
CC: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "'Steve Faulkner'" <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com>, <kirsten@can-adapt.com>
<figure role="group"  aria-label="image with caption:">
<figcaption>W3C logo</figcaption>
<img src="w3c_home.png" width="72" height="48">


If I understand correctly this example is a completely separate issue from
the HTML5 question, which does not allow for the omission of the alternative
text except that one exception of an alternative text not being available.
And separate from our conversation on HTML5 accessibility task force call
yesterday. Is that right Steve? 


I tested this with JAWS. Here's the transcript. 


“Group start- image with caption”

[User presses down arrow to enter group]

"W3C logo"

[User presses down arrow]

“group end”

The introduction of the role and label help. The user now knows an image is
present, which was my major concern. 


What the user can't do currently with JAWS in this construct is:

-create a custom label for the graphic which they could do if it was a plain
image, and list this graphic with other graphics have custom labels, 

-surf through graphics with the G key 

The second issue is true for NVDA also.


I expect JAWS could create heuristics to do these things in the future. But
currently this construct is not as accessible to JAWS users as an image with
alt text. Is it sufficient for 1.1.1? Yes, if F65 allowed for other
replacements for alt text. 


I think that is a huge issue in front of us right now. Perhaps we should
create a test page with all the different constructs (aria-labelledby,
aria-label, title, figcaption etc. )and solicit responses from the community
who are dependent upon screen readers.




David MacDonald


CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

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From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com] 
Sent: January 17, 2014 6:00 AM
To: Alastair Campbell
Cc: David MacDonald; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org; public-html-a11y@w3.org; Steve
Faulkner; kirsten@can-adapt.com
Subject: Re: figcaption NOT an replacement for alt in HTML5


Hi all,

figure and figcaption is a feature to group content and provide a caption
for the grouped content

figure provides the programmatic grouping, thus the default role=group

figcaption = caption thus the default role=caption

previously HTML did not have such a structure, now it does, what is needed
is people to bug UA vendors to implement the semantics so what is obvious to
some people (i.e here is an image with a caption) is conveyed to all.

I have filed various bugs against browsers in this regard. getting SR
vendors to implement stuff is harder, but that does not mean it should not
be done.

below is an example of markup for the use case we are dealing with (i.e.
caption but no image) that does work in at least 2 browser/UA combinations:
JAWS with IE or Firefox, talkback with chrome. It does not work yet with
other AT as they have not implemented support for the ARIA role/properties
(i.e. these are bugs in ATs)

<figure role="group"  aria-label="image with caption:">
<figcaption>W3C logo</figcaption>
<img src="w3c_home.png" width="72" height="48">

test page:

I think the above is clearly a case where the figcaption text is a caption
and should be identified as such. And would go further to say that the
caption text is an adequate text alternative.

FYI i wrote an article a few years back about figure/.figcaption and its





HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> 


On 17 January 2014 10:26, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com> wrote:

David MacDonald wrote:
"But it does not appear in any way that they are asking us to create the
same exception. WCAG is about making websites more accessible, the wording
that they have chosen in HTML5 makes it clear that they are discouraging it
is less accessible. "

Hi David,

That brings me back to the original question then, should there be a WCAG
technique for it?

The existence of such a technique for SC 1.1.1 would appear to create the
same exception in WCAG.

I think it would be better placed under 1.3.1 as a grouping mechanism.



Received on Friday, 17 January 2014 11:59:43 UTC

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