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Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt

From: Loretta Guarino Reid <lorettaguarino@google.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 20:25:48 +0000
Message-ID: <CAHu5OWb_4-SNxgGkigUYT6pMY6C94zkDMWSj+LtCj9UoBNX8Vw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, "Gunderson, Jon R" <jongund@illinois.edu>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, "w3c-wai-gl@w3.org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "kirsten@can-adapt.com" <kirsten@can-adapt.com>
Yes, this should be a sufficient technique (under the right circumstances)
but it sounds like there is no accessibility support at this point.


On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Steve Faulkner
<faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi dave,
> thanks for doing the testing.
> Note i never claimed that it worked currently as stated in
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/#m6
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
> On 13 January 2014 19:47, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>  A couple of corrections. Dragon NaturallySpeaking misspeaks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> I've done some testing with a simple image.
>>
>> http://davidmacd.com/test/figure.html
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a simple image inside the figure tag with placeholder text in the
>> figcaption.
>>
>>
>>
>>    -Jaws with Internet Explorer and Firefox: : it read the text of the
>> figcaption but did not announce a figure and did not recognize that there
>> was a graphic on the page. The Jaws key "G" to read the next graphic does
>> not work because Jaws does not appear to recognize as a graphic.
>>
>>
>>
>>    -NVDA with Internet Explorer and Firefox: it read the text of the
>> figcaption but did not announce a figure and did not recognize that there
>> was a graphic on the page. The key "G" to read the next graphic does not
>> work because NVDA does not appear to recognize it as a graphic.
>>
>>
>>
>>    -Safari in Maverick: does not recognize the figure element and just
>> says “group”, then an empty image and the text afterwards as if it was a
>> paragraph as if there was no relationship between the legend and the
>> graphic.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Aviewer and IE: screenshot below...   I guess it shows up as a group the
>> image has not reported Accname. So API seems to only report the content of
>> the figcaption when the figcaption as focus.
>>
>>
>>
>> Discussion: I'm really struggling to figure out where I stand on all of
>> this because the ways things are being reported right now in a Windows
>> environment does not really allow the screener user to even know that there
>> is a figure there. It just reads a text of the figcaption without
>> announcing that it's a figure. In Safari it does announce as a group. It's
>> hard to tell when the group ends. It just simply has a graphic without an
>> alternative and then the next time the person arrows down they get the
>> figcaption which doesn't appear to be a programmatic association except for
>> the word “group” before the item. VoiceOver screen reader users will have
>> to get themselves acclimatized to this new type of group. But all in all
>> I'm quite disappointed with the way it works. It almost seems like this
>> belongs in that larger discussion about accessible names and alternative
>> text. Right now it seems there's more success with some of the other
>> nonstandard alternatives than with figcaption. Which makes it difficult to
>> say this is okay and the others are not. I'm really committed to unity
>> between HTML5 and WCAG, but reticent to create a technique that is
>> sufficient using figcaption right now. And I'm wondering what others think.
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: SNAGHTML226329]
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>
>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>
>> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>
>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>
>>
>>
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>> Je vous remercie de votre collaboration.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com<faulkner.steve@gmail.com>]
>>
>> *Sent:* January 13, 2014 9:58 AM
>> *To:* Gunderson, Jon R
>> *Cc:* Alastair Campbell; Joshue O Connor; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jon, you have asked me this question before :-)
>>
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Feb/0093.html
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>>
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 January 2014 14:54, Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>>
>>
>> What are the proposed accessibility API mapping for FIGURE and FIGCAPTION
>> elements?
>>
>>
>>
>> Is the FIGURE the same as an IMG element, where FIGCAPTION has the same
>> role as the ALT attribute?
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2014 5:50 AM
>> *To:* Alastair Campbell
>> *Cc:* Joshue O Connor; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 January 2014 11:42, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I seem to remember there was a big discussion about whether @alt should
>> be required for HTML5, which is a similar issue. I'm not sure what the
>> outcome was, has that been decided and written down somewhere?
>>
>>
>>
>> there is one case where an alt attribute is not required:
>>
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#when-a-text-alternative-is-not-available-at-the-time-of-publication
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>>
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>
>>
>>
>
>



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Received on Monday, 13 January 2014 20:26:38 UTC

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