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Re: Minutes: Canvas Accessibility Sub Group Teleconference, 03 February 2014

From: david bolter <david.bolter@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 21:48:13 +0000
Message-ID: <CAEO7jQCxjpy4qZj311fdbRGkidqTPNK4-gVA-Kvt5NvFnxq++A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org>
Cc: HTML A11Y TF Public <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "public-canvas-api@w3.org" <public-canvas-api@w3.org>, David Bolter <dbolter@mozilla.com>
Hi all,

On 2/4/2014, 10:20 AM, Mark Sadecki wrote:
>    DB: It appears as though there was a reaction to the discussion
>    at Mozilla. I was surprised that Dominic withdrew his support.
>    ... need to ask him.

I connected with Dominic. Neither drawFocus* nor hit-region approaches are
off the table. The withdrawal of the intent to ship email on blink-dev
seems to be a prudent thing to do while we take a fresh look at hit regions
over the next week(s).

While solving canvas a11y has quite a history I'm hopeful we'll get
implementer consensus on the way forward before too much longer.

Cheers,
David


On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Mark Sadecki <mark@w3.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The minutes for the Canvas Accessibility Sub Group Teleconference 03
> February 2014 are available in HTML and plain text below.  Supporting
> information for this Sub Group can be found on the wiki:
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas
>
> HTML: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-html-a11y-minutes.html
>
> TEXT:
>    [1]W3C
>
>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>
>              Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
>
> 03 Feb 2014
>
>    See also: [2]IRC log
>
>       [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-html-a11y-irc
>
> Attendees
>
>    Present
>           Mark Sadecki, Rich Schwerdtfeger, Jay Munro, David
>           Bolter, Jatinder Mann, Mike Smith
>
>    Regrets
>    Chair
>           Mark Sadecki
>
>    Scribe
>           Mark Sadecki
>
> Contents
>
>      * [3]Topics
>          1. [4]Concerns raised by Mozilla
>          2. [5]When Canvas can go back to LC
>          3. [6]Next Meeting
>      * [7]Summary of Action Items
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>    <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2014
>
>    <scribe> Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
>
>    <scribe> scribe: MarkS
>
> Concerns raised by Mozilla
>
>    DB: It appears as though there was a reaction to the discussion
>    at Mozilla. I was surprised that Dominic withdrew his support.
>    ... need to ask him. Want to give Alex and Rik some space to
>    explore hit regions
>
>    [8]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958241
>
>       [8] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=958241
>
>    DB: worried that the AAPI doesn't have enough info about
>    siblings and children, etc.
>
>    RS: I understand that info gets stored in the layout engine,
>    and in the AAPI. If you do average scrolling, the info get
>    updated. The issue we had was if the viewport needed to be
>    scrolled into view, which we handled in our spec changes
>    ... When the discussion was happening, Zynga was not pleased
>    with hit testing approach. They wanted something "fuzzier"
>    ... they wanted to modify the actually hit or trigger area
>    ... when hit testing was put into the spec, Microsoft didn't
>    have a chance to review it. It was later taken out. So we
>    focused on the drawSystemFocusRing, now drawFocusIfNeeded
>    approach to handle a11y.
>    ... in order for hit regions to work, we have to work on Path
>    as well. Most of this is Canvas L2 stuff.
>
>    DB: Who is responsible for storing the current path
>
>    ?
>
>    RS: its the object, the canvas object.
>    ... I think the drawFocusIfNeeded and Hit Regions need to
>    coexist
>
>    DB: It could cause a problem, I don't know.
>
>    RS: If we do implement hit regions, we could say that it
>    overrides any drawFocusIfNeeded processing.
>
>    DB: right one would need priority
>    ... we wanted to explore hit testing. if it doesn't work out,
>    we wanted to consider focus outline as a backup
>    ... if hit testing goes really well, we're not sure what we
>    would do with focus outline approach
>
>    JMann: So hit testing might solve the problem we solve with
>    drawFocus?
>
>    RS: It would solve the location info, but not the outline
>    drawing
>
>    JMann: so we have two potential solutions, but would only need
>    to support one?
>
>    RS: IF we had two, could one affect the setting of the other?
>
>    DB: I'm looking out for the cognitive load on the developer
>
>    JMann: If we support drawFocus, and then hit testing comes
>    around, how does that affect the developer
>
>    RS: Hit testing was always in the plan. The question is how
>    long people will have to wait.
>
>    JMann: imagine we support drawFocus, hit testing in L2 will
>    have to play nicely with drawFocus
>
>    RS: I don't think it would be a problem. We'd be applying hit
>    regions in a similar manner to how its done in the OS. The
>    thing is, if we add hit testing, if someone supplies a hit
>    region, it takes precedence over any other location information
>
>    JMann: whatever we build in L2, it has to play well with L1. I
>    just worry about compatibility. Espeicially if our only
>    motivation is to get something out the door.
>
>    RS: We will still need to handle drawing the focus, including
>    high contrast.
>
>    DB: as far as I'm concerned, neither option is off the table.
>    Trevor didn't accept the patch, but that is not final. We would
>    like to take a week on this to do some exploration.
>    ... I have reached out to Dominic. Don't want to bother him too
>    much.
>
>    RS: Better if it came from Moz.
>
>    MS: encourage Moz to post to public-canvas-api
>
>    JMunro: looking at hit regions, just wanted to say Path is
>    critical to that. If we are thinking about going down that
>    road, there is a lot of work to do on both
>
>    JMann: happy with drawFocus in L1 and hit regions in L2 as long
>    as there is no backwards compatibility issues.
>
>    RS: I don't think they are going to draw the actual focus in
>    hit regions
>
> When Canvas can go back to LC
>
>    MS: I will update Paul this week in the TF call. Mozilla would
>    like at least one week to explore the Hit Testing solution.
>    They do not formally oppose drawFocusIfNeeded at this point.
>    David Bolter will reach out to Dominic to make sure that is
>    clear.
>
> Next Meeting
>
>    See you all next week.
>
>    <jaymunro> thanks mark
>
> Summary of Action Items
>
>    [End of minutes]
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>
>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [9]scribe.perl version
>     1.138 ([10]CVS log)
>     $Date: 2014-02-04 15:19:12 $
>
>       [9] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>      [10] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>
>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 4 February 2014 21:48:39 UTC

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