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Re: 48-Hour Consensus Call: InstateLongdesc CP Update

From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 21:53:59 +1000
Message-ID: <CAHp8n2ngTQ4fRFxS9GomnwrctNaiwCMd7+29bA3JU0cAY6RK=A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, David Singer <singer@apple.com>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Leif Halvard Silli
<xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:
> Silvia Pfeiffer, Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:06:58 +1000:
>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Leif Halvard Silli:
>>> Silvia Pfeiffer, Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:48:44 +1000:
>>>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:04 AM, John Foliot:
>>>>> James Craig wrote:
>>>>> I'm more concerned about a link in that hidden frame, or perhaps 3 or 4
>>>>> links, and how/what will happen with tab-focus.  For a screen
>>>>> reader to be
>>>>> able to afford the user the ability to fire a link, it must first receive
>>>>> tab-focus. Yet those tab-focusable links are hidden to the sighted user.
>>>> you can't have it both ways:
>>> Did you mean "or it is is accessibility content, then it is not
>>> __accessible__ to anything but _screenreader users_" ?
>> Yes, screenreader users and any tools that rely on the a11y API of browsers.
>>> So I don't think John's concern is "how to have it both ways". Rather,
>>> it is how to make sure that users only get it a single way.
>> My point was: what if for a particular Website the owner decides that
>> the long description is not relevant to be exposed visually, but would
>> still like to provide it to the a11y API. Thus, if we *require* it
>> both ways, we will end up getting nothing.
> I think you point to a problem with the iframe technique: iframe is not
> meant for the A11Y API alone - not unless one isolates it via hidden=""
> and use aria-descriedby="" or similar (why not longdesc=""!) to point
> to it. So using iframe is, effectively, a 'both ways' technique.

No, iframes are fine since they are hidden from view. I don't like
iframes for other reasons - I would prefer we actually have an
explicit a11y solution for long descriptions rather than having
everyone write their own, because they can be found by a web crawler.

Instead, I was pointing to the request to have a visual encumbrance
for @longdesc, something that Web devs do not want. Browser settings
are outside the scope of Web devs, so don't count in this context. So,
if a web dev wants to provide a long description for an image, but
does not want a visual encumbrance, then they won't use @longdesc
because that implies (at least for some users) a visual encumbrance.

Received on Tuesday, 25 September 2012 11:57:11 UTC

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