W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-a11y@w3.org > May 2012

Re: Caption vis a vis Transcript {Was: Text Subteam Minutes for Tuesday 29 May]

From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 22:08:49 +1000
Message-ID: <CAHp8n2=0iy6EGy+FbN_N5t-Z3Je27rDCe4Mze0q+YYdDbHsqBA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> Silvia Pfeiffer writes:
>> Just a comment inline on my "confusion of transcripts and captions"...
>>
>> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:59 AM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
>> [..]
>> >
>> >   194- transcript
>> >   jf: A modified proposal presented by Silvia overnight
>> >   <JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ISSUE-194/TranscriptElement
> <snip>
>> >   <JF> JS: have 1 concern - hearing caption being used interchanged with transcript
>> >
>> >   <JF> not a substitute for caption
>> >
>> >   <JF> JF: suspect that silvia is being somewhat loose when she uses the 2 interchangably
>> >
>> >   <JF> JB: want to make sure that she is very clear - correct any confusion
>> >
>> >   <JF> JS: agreed, need to be clear there is a distinction
>>
>> If you read the change proposal carefully, you may find the word
>> "captions" (and indeed the word "descriptions") used a few times.
>> These are not used as a place-holder for transcript. However,
>> *interactive transcripts* can be created from caption files (as
>> described in our requirements document). They can even better be
>> created from captions+descriptions files because then then end up
>> having all the information included. This is in fact done in the
>> example that I sent the other day:
>> http://dispatch.media.gbuild.net/video/14 .
>>
>> Hope that clarifies that point.
>>
>
> No, unfortunately not. The words are not synonyms, and we must be
> careful not to confuse why, and for whom, we support these three
> alternative media types.
>
> It is indeed the case that our User Requirements document discusses
> transcript with reference both to captions and to video transcripts.
> We do say: "A full text transcript should include information that
> would be in both the caption and video description,  ..."
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#transcripts
>
> However, in this very same section we also say:  "The full transcript
> supports different user needs and is
>   not a replacement for captioning."
>
> We also explain why this is so--namely because captions, video
> descriptions, and transcripts serve the needs of different user
> communities.
>
> Why cannot we simply serve all the various user needs from one
> alternative media resource? We answer that as well when we point out
> that:  "... even with ordinary captions, it is possible to miss some
> information as the captions and the video require two separate loci of
> attention." The unstated implication, of course, is that there is evern
> more risk of this with a full transcript (that also contains the video
> description information).
>
> Captioning is primarily for deaf and hard of hearing persons. Their
> alternative accomodation is a version they can use of what happens in
> audio -- both what is spoken and what key sound events are occurring.
> The video description information is superfluous to these users, and
> they will certainly object to conflating the two.
>
> Similarly, video description is the alternative mechanism for those who
> cannot see what is transpiring visually. Captioning information is
> superfluous to these users, and they will certainly also object to
> conflating the two.
>
> We should most expressly not use these terms interchangeably, though it
> is certainly reasonable to generate transcripts by combining captions and
> video descriptions.

I have done no such thing as using these terms interchangeably.
Nowhere am I saying that captions or descriptions are a replacement
for transcripts or vice versa. I regard them as three different things
with three different use cases and I believe the CP is clear on that,
too. The only thing I am stating is that one particular type of
transcript can be created *technically* from a caption and a
description file (as you are saying, too).


>> If there is any wording that could be used in the CP to make it
>> clearer for those that got confused, do propose it.
>>
>
>
> I'll take another look, Silvia, thanks.

Please do.

Best Regards,
Silvia.
Received on Wednesday, 30 May 2012 12:09:45 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 30 May 2012 12:09:47 GMT