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Text Subteam Minutes for 27 March

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 13:55:04 -0400
To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20120328175504.GC4810@sonata.rednote.net>
Minutes for the HTML-A11Y Text Subteam teleconference on 27 March are
provided below in text and published as hypertext at:


                                                           - DRAFT -

                                      Text Alternatives Sub-Group of HTML A11Y Task Force

27 Mar 2012

   See also: IRC log


          John_Foliot, Judy, LeifHSilli, Laura_Carlson, Janina




     * Topics
         1. coordination update on several text-alternatives change proposals; other pending issues
         2. aria 1.1 timeline in relation to html5 timeline
         3. longdesc conformance
         4. other issues pending longdesc resolution
         5. confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status
     * Summary of Action Items

   <scribe> scribe: JF

coordination update on several text-alternatives change proposals; other pending issues

   Judy met with Sam, Paul PLH re metagenerator issue, and @longdesc/Issue 204

   <LeifHSilli> I am on pnone,, Leif

   Janina - re:metagenerator, attempted to discuss concerns re questons being posed

   strayig into weeds by the questions

   user needs not being met, users require alt text

   Judy - believe chairs now realize that question may have been 'off" - request that we document items

   hope to get them discussed and have the question re-opened and looked at

   Judy - re: @longdesc/Issue 204

   Paul is hoping to join thursday's a11yTF call

   and explain the Chairs plans moving forward

   Judy - did not have an opportunity to discuss bugs around location of ALT guidance

   plan on meeting next Monday, hope to add additional items for that call's agenda

   Judy - it was a somewhat useful call

   didn't get back to <canvas> either

   Janina - notes a revert notice last night

   Judy - still unclear on impact on a11y issues

aria 1.1 timeline in relation to html5 timeline

   Judy - chairs are very interested in this timeline issue

   did clarify that Rich's email was a design idea being explored, and not the start of ARIA 1.1 at this time

   Chairs would like a statement from PFWG/janina as to whether ARIA 1.1 would be done within the timeframe of HTML5 for
   HTML5 timeline

   Janina - understood this slightly differently

   heard "will we be coming back with aria-describedat in time for HTML5 timeline"

   believe the answer is no, but it remains possible

   given timeline of HTML5's timeline

   Judy - disconnect from what Judy heard - checking actual question (in writing)

   Janina - quotes chairs email

   <janina> Janina to establish that describedat is not being pursued with a

   <janina> completion that would make it relevant in an HTML5 timeframe.

   Janina - suggests that it is already irrelevant to HTML5 time-line

   Janina - if HTML5 only goes to TR in 2016 then it is likely describedat will be done

   but with regard to published timeline for HTML5 it is likely not going to happen

   Janina - expects this discussed in PF call later this week

   Judy - with regard to ARIA 1.1 timeline, will get determination from PF call later this week?

   Janina - yes

   Judy - other questions?

longdesc conformance

   Judy - good that Laura and Leif are here for this

   Janina - question from coordination is are we going to modify to accept obsolete but conforming

   believe we are tending towards no on that question

   but we need to be definitive on this resolution

   Janina - why i believe it must remain fully conforming

   it is aimed at authors - it says this is good, but something new is better

   but we don't yet have a better

   so we have nothing to point to - it doesn't exist

   JF says +1

   Janina - believe we need this resolved now

   Judy - do either Leif or Laura wish to comment

   Leif - I agree

   <Judy> +1

   Laura - I agree as well, @longdesc is a useful attribute in and of itself

   Judy - we may need to have more rationale captured for the larger Working Group

   Laura - could point to the spec, as it says that and contains examples

   Judy - succinct list is helpful

   all we can do is make a recommendation to the larger TF, and then WG

   Janina - recap of the key points

   Obsolete suggests that authors *STOP* using something and start using something else

   this is not the message we want to be sending

   Judy - want to also convey that J&J had a long discussion with CoChairs on next steps

   not happy with unnecessarydelay, but understand Chairs need to walk through the steps

   Janina - we need to be sure that whatever the outcome of I204 that we clearly explain why the describedby approach does
   not work


   <Judy> s/l204/204/

   Janina - there seems to be some fallacy on this how will work

   (JF explains the issue with "hidden" content versus off-screen content)

   Judy - anyone have any further questions

   Leif - we need to be sure to clearly explain why it doesn't work

   Laura - this is going to be complicated to author

   JF - this *does* work, but with lousy UI interaction

   if you place tab-focusable content off screen it breaks UI behavior

   so it *does* work, but it introducing contraventions to WCAG reqs

   and so for that reason is unacceptable

   Janina - Josh and James have begun an HTML5 / WCAG techniques Task Force (joint TF with PF)

   JF - so this needs to be captured in that group as well

   <janina> x/co-chair/co-chair/

   Janina - be sure to capture that a table with 6 rows, 6 columns would introduce 36 tab-stops off screen

other issues pending longdesc resolution

   <Judy> Judy: while your CP on poster was denied because of a dependency on longdesc, in principle, the idea of taking
   issues in sequence because of dependencies should be acceptable since the WG is already doing that, for instance with
   204 and longdesc. So we will be requesting reconsideration of the denial.

   JF- discussion of the dual problem of requiring longer text descriptions for both the MP4 and the JPG (w.r.t. <video>)

   thus @longdesc would solve one of those problems

   - now on agneda item 12 - metagenerator

   <Judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html

   Judy - we will need to document some things about metagenerator

   about 1/4 - 1/3 way through that email

   on some justifications, they are either incorrect assumptions or inappropriate weighting

   Judy - would like to get a reading on these 10 things, and get feedback

   then author a short email that recaps this

   Janina - we also need to discount ian's assertions about authoring tools

   <Judy> ...by pointing to things they readily accepted, but shouldn't

   Judy - looking for people to comment on a draft

   Leif agrees to assist as well

   <laura> I can help with it too.

   <laura> Had to drop off the call. Thanks everyone.

   <Judy> thanks Laura

confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status

   Judy - will need to defer remaining items


   bye 'till thursday

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

Found Scribe: JF
Present: John_Foliot Judy LeifHSilli Laura_Carlson Janina


Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Chair, Protocols & Formats
Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
Received on Wednesday, 28 March 2012 17:55:28 UTC

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