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RE: [media] progress on video transcript discussion

From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:38:49 +0000
To: "Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> (janina@rednote.net)" <janina@rednote.net>
CC: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Edward O'Connor <eoconnor@apple.com>, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "chaals@opera.com" <chaals@opera.com>, Eric Carlson <eric.carlson@apple.com>
Message-ID: <AB5704B0EEC35B4691114DC04366B37F05FEA3@TK5EX14MBXC121.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Yes I understand that Ted O'Connor and other Apple staff are out this week at their WWDC.   And given that Silvia [1] has said she is still working on drafting the consensus proposal and also busy this week, I expect the best plan will be to wait until next week.

/paulc

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Jun/0081.html

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329


-----Original Message-----
From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> (janina@rednote.net) [mailto:janina@rednote.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:52 PM
To: Paul Cotton
Cc: Silvia Pfeiffer; John Foliot; Edward O'Connor; David MacDonald; HTML Accessibility Task Force; chaals@opera.com; Eric Carlson
Subject: Re: [media] progress on video transcript discussion

Paul:

Any reason we can't do this on the TF and WG calls tomorrow?

The fundamental answer is: "Yes, we have progress." But, Apple's been tied up in their WWDC this week. This is blocking us on this issue and a few others.

Janina

Paul Cotton writes:
> > OK, let's see if we can get consensus. :-)
> 
> Where do we stand on a consensus proposal for ISSUE-194: full-transcript?   
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194
> 
> /paulc
> 
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Silvia Pfeiffer [mailto:silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 6:47 PM
> To: John Foliot
> Cc: David MacDonald; HTML Accessibility Task Force; Edward O'Connor; 
> chaals@opera.com; Eric Carlson
> Subject: Re: [media] progress on video transcript discussion
> 
> On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 1:54 AM, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca> wrote:
> > Silvia Pfeiffer wrote:
> >>
> >> OK, sorry, I mis-wrote. I am using ARIA only where blind and 
> >> vision-impaired users need it. For all other needs I have proposed 
> >> a generic solution.
> >>
> >> When the transcript is not visible, there is a link.
> >> When the transcript is visible, they can see it and don't need any 
> >> more notice.
> >> So, there is no problem.
> >
> >
> > Here is a use-case where this is a problem:
> >
> > <div>
> > <video src="video.mpg" aria-label="video with transcript below"
> > transcript="@this_page#transcript"></video>
> >
> > <a href="transcript.html" hidden>Transcript</a>
> >
> > *or*
> >
> > <a href="transcript.html" style="margin-left:-999px; position:
> > absolute;">Transcript</a>
> >
> > *or*
> >
> > <a href="transcript.html" style="display:none;">Transcript</a>
> >
> > *or {shudder}*
> >
> > <a href="transcript.html" aria-hidden="true">Transcript</a>
> 
> 
> In all these use cases, the sighted user sees no transcript either, so the best thing to do here is to discourage this usage completely since it is not good for ANY user.
> 
> If it happens, however, then the aria-label attribute needs to say aria-label="transcript available" and the @transcript=URL will point to it, exposed in the context menu, button on the player of whichever suits the video player best.
> 
> It is therefore a use case that is covered with my suggestion.
> 
> 
> > Here is another troubling use-case:
> >
> > <video src="video.mpg" transcript="@this_page#transcript"></video>
> >
> > <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit 
> > amet...</p> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p> <p>Lorem ipsum 
> > dolor sit amet...</p> <p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet...</p> <p>Lorem 
> > ipsum dolor sit amet...</p>
> >
> > <footer style="font-size: 8px;">Download the <a 
> > href="transcript.html">transcript</a> here | <a 
> > href="privacy.html">Privacy Policy</a> | {etc.}</footer>
> >
> > Problems:
> > 1) the cut and paste concern we continue to have
> 
> 
> There is a @transcript=URL attribute in the video, which will be cut and pasted as well. Thus my suggestion to encourage authors to only use absolute URLs in this attribute. Then we avoid this problem.
> 
> 
> > 2) users with low vision who are using a screen magnifier that does 
> > not render the entire screen in view, but rather a portion of that 
> > screen. The distance between the video element and the link to the 
> > transcript makes discovery problematic (compounded by the fact that 
> > in this scenario, the link has been 'dumped' into the footer along 
> > with all the other pesky stuff like copyright notice and privacy 
> > statement; is rendered as smaller text; and generally treated as a 
> > necessary
> > evil)
> >
> > Even in this use-case, if we applied an aria linkage for blind 
> > users, it would not solve the problem for the low-vision user who is 
> > using a screen magnifier and not a screen reader.
> 
> Indeed - the aria attributes don't help, but the @transcript=URL attribute solves this use case, too.
> 
> 
> 
> >> >> Since it is now very clearly a
> >> >> link, it is indeed possible for developers to experiment with
> >> buttons
> >> >> or other interaction mechanisms on the video player if they want to.
> >> >> So, I think it meets the requirement that you're posing.
> >> >
> >> > Yes, it does indeed.
> >>
> >> Well, this is what I care about. :-)
> >
> > And this is indeed the most important common-ground we share, so do 
> > not become frustrated by my responses.
> 
> OK, let's see if we can get consensus. :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Silvia.
> 
> 

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

The Linux Foundation
Chair, Open Accessibility:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
Received on Thursday, 14 June 2012 02:40:00 UTC

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