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RE: Moving forward with Issue-204

From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 22:35:26 +0000
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
CC: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Message-ID: <AB5704B0EEC35B4691114DC04366B37FBF7961@TK5EX14MBXC289.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
> Paul, do Accessibility Task Force resolutions make any difference to the Chairs in the HTML WG decision process?

As all of our surveys state "We will not do any numerical counting all the votes. All we will look at is the objections and rationale presented."   So although the TF resolutions are good to determine the TF's consensus but do not really play a role in the subsequent surveys.

/paulc
HTML WG co-chair

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329


-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 4:40 PM
To: HTML Accessibility Task Force; Judy Brewer; John Foliot; Janina Sajka; Paul Cotton
Subject: Fwd: Moving forward with Issue-204

Hi all,

It seems like Issue 204 may go to an survey soon if there are no objections to Paul's proposed plan [1] .

John, do you want to ask for an Accessibility Task Force Call for Consensus and Resolution on your V4 proposal (as you spoke of on June
29) before a HTML WG survey is conducted?

Paul, do Accessibility Task Force resolutions make any difference to the Chairs in the HTML WG decision process? If so that could take a short time to put together. Janina, how long do you think it would take?

Best Regards,
Laura
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0089.html


-- Forwarded message --
From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: Moving forward with Issue-204
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>, Edward O'Connor <eoconnor@apple.com>
Cc: "John Foliot (john@foliot.ca)" <john@foliot.ca>, "Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> (janina@rednote.net)" <janina@rednote.net>, "public-html-a11y@w3.org" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>

> Two weeks ago, John replied to Ted regarding Ted's proposed text. It was on the same day that Ted proposed it: June 29, 2012.
> John's response is at:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0176.html


My apologies for missing John's reply.  My only excuses are a) not enough early morning coffee and b) John copied the TF email list which caused his message to get filed automatically in separate folder by my inbound email rules.  I really should have checked the thread on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/


So to summarize:

a) We have a proposal from Ted and John's reply but not further progress on that front, AND
b) We have Janina's separate concern about the Details section of Ted's Change Proposal
(http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0074.html)
and no further progress on that front.

If the Chairs do not see any indication that anyone is going to work on the above two items then we propose to proceed to a survey on the two existing changes proposals:

a) http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/AllowAriaReferHidden

b) http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Correct_Hidden_Attribute_Section_v4


Please provide any objections to this plan ASAP.

/paulc
HTML WG co-chair

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329

-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:27 PM
To: Paul Cotton; Jonas Sicking; Edward O'Connor
Cc: John Foliot (john@foliot.ca); Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, "public-html@w3.org
Subject: Re: Moving forward with Issue-204

Hi Paul,

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Ted wrote:
>> Here's my attempt at wording this restriction. What do you think?
>
> I have not seen any feedback on this proposed text.

Two weeks ago, John replied to Ted regarding Ted's proposed text. It was on the same day that Ted proposed it: June 29, 2012. John's response is at:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0176.html


Paul, I think that John's  third to the last paragraph is key to this
situation: "we've come to a crossroads". *

Janina said in last week's HTML WG teleconference:

> janina: would be happiest if we can reach consensus on language ...
> not sure how to move in that direction, would be good if hober can 
> move this ... great concern is there are large # of disabled users not 
> using screen readers ... problems with tab approach ... probably not 
> meeting all use cases
http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html#item10


So it seems that the ball is in Ted and  Jonas' court.

Ted and Jonas, can you live with John's V4 CP?
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Correct_Hidden_Attribute_Section_v4

If not can you while taking into consideration John's June 29th reply, propose text for the details section of the V4 proposal that that you could live with? Like John, I too am hoping for a positive response.

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Laura

* "Every good-faith effort has been made here, and if at this time you and Jonas are still unprepared to endorse the V4 CP, then I will ask the Accessibility Task Force for their endorsement of the V4 CP and ask that the Chairs proceed with a WBS survey on Issue 204.", John Foliot http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0176.html

--
Laura L. Carlson

Received on Monday, 16 July 2012 22:36:04 GMT

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