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Re: Other problems, @hidden (ISSUE-204 aria-hidden)

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 18:25:05 +0100
Message-ID: <CA+ri+VmdBZE+544fZqL8ww1CRyF68YHazbDiuPp2erEdPiXRnQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, public-html@w3.org, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Hi leif,

I did not use any AT I was looking at what information is exposed via
MSAA/IA2 in Firefox and MSAA in IE.

What AT's do is a different matter.

will investigate further when I have time.

regards

SteveF

On 15 August 2012 18:07, Leif Halvard Silli <
xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:

> Steve Faulkner, Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:45:59 +0100:
> >> And my assumption was - and is - that this is because they are hard to
> >> document - perhaps because there is nothing to document. It seems to me
> >> that, at least for now, @hidden simply maps to style="display:none",
> >> and nothing more. Do you have data for any other conclusion?
> >
> > your assumption is incorrect, stuff has not yet been documented in
> > the most part because we have not got to it yet.
>
> When ATs read <p hidden style=display:block>Lorem</p> the same way as
> if you had removed @hidden, then it is impossible that @hidden is
> mapped to aria-hidden=true. So it shall be interesting to see how it
> maps - not to aria-hidden=true, at least.
>
> >> We have heard that Firefox has started to implement what ISSUE-204 is
> >> about. So what does Firefox do if the @aria-describedby points to a
> >> hidden section which *also* has aria-hidden="true" set? I have not
> >> tested that exact example, but based on the tests I have don, I don't
> >> think it works. If so, then HTML5 is wrong - or at least not exact
> >> enough.
> >
> > works fine with aria-hidden+display:none or aria-hidden or
> > aria-hidden+hidden
> > test page:
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/377471/tests/firefox-describedby.html
> >
> > the default action (showLongdesc) on the image is exposed regardless.
>
> Please inform us about the AT and Firefox version you used! And please
> edit your test (see below)!
>
> My results are different from what you have told us. In my results, the
> aria-hidden link does not get announced unless it, per CSS, is visible.
>
> My testpage: http://www.malform.no/testing/html5/hidden/
>
> I tested with Firefox 14 (and Firefox Nightly) + Jaws 13 on XP and
> Windows 7, with my own variants of your code. (I also tried to test
> with Firefox Nightly for Mac with VoiceOver, but it turned out that
> that combination did not have any support aria-hidden=true what so ever
> - thus it would always work, you could say.)
>
> So for the following example, then Firefox tells me that the page has
> no links. But when it presents the image, then it informs me that I can
> open a description link:
>
>   <DOCTYPE html><title>test 1</title>
>   <img aria-describedby=longdesc src=file alt=txt >
>   <p aria-hidden=true><a id=longdesc href=link>link</a>
>
> But for this example, which has @hidden, then it does not inform me
> about the link. (However pressing Enter when on the image may still
> open the link):
>
>   <DOCTYPE html><title>test 2</title>
>   <img aria-describedby=longdesc src=file alt=txt >
>   <p hidden aria-hidden=true><a id=longdesc href=link>link</a>
>
> Prediction: If you remove the first example (with the visible link)
> from your test page, then you will perceive it as if the link in the
> second example has stopped working. This is why: You should use
> different URLs in the two examples, so that you can verify that you
> opened the correct link. Because, when I ran your and mine tests, with
> more than one link on the page, then the link that opened was often not
> the one that I thought would open ...
>
> My test pages follow those 'guidelines'. PS: I did not use <figure>,
> but just <p>, to avoid possible side effects.
>
> The interesting issue here is that Firefox seems to to have implemented
> something for aria-hidden=true. But I can't spot that it has done
> anything with hidden.
> --
> Leif Halvard Silli
>
Received on Wednesday, 15 August 2012 17:26:14 GMT

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