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Re: no-title CP - remarks

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 16:42:43 +0100
Message-ID: <BANLkTimVOpOXZ9A0_1k2VeibjyQdgLr-Nw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, Michael Smith <mike@w3.org>, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
H Leif,


>I'm not open to act as if I agree if I don't agree: what I have said in
>the CP I can also say in a poll, and the chairs would then have to
>consider it.

Nobody is asking you, what I am asking of the group (a11y taskforce) is if
there is consensus to move ahead with the proposal i have provided or after
considereing your proposal the group thinks other wise.

naturally if the group decides they want to change their stance to one of
allowing title when alt is not present, due to the strength of the arguments
and evidence you have provided, I would definitely not agree, but would not
attempt to block forward movement on the issue.

> also remember from a subgroup comment that there was doubt wether we
>could 100% avoid the generator exception (in some form/shape). It is
>implied from your comment above that if we can't 100% the generator
>exception then we don't have any reason to ask for the generator
>exception to be reopened ...

the question is about alt/title not the generator exemption.


regards
stevef


On 11 May 2011 16:28, Leif Halvard Silli
<xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>wrote:

> Steve Faulkner, Wed, 11 May 2011 09:36:20 +0100:
> > Hi  All,
> >
> > 1. Leif's proposal does not require a re-opening of the decision
> > since it does not call for the use of title in the absence of alt to
> > be non conforming. So I suggest that it is inappropriate to consider
> > it in terms of re-opening, the changes Leif proposes should first be
> > submitted as last call bugs.
>
> I'm not strong on the process questions. But it is the chairs' task to
> assess whether I've provided reasons to re-open. The Decision decided
> what is supposed to be valid, and the CP I've collected suggests a
> different solution to that problem than what is the outcome of the
> Decision.
>
> I also remember from a subgroup comment that there was doubt wether we
> could 100% avoid the generator exception (in some form/shape). It is
> implied from your comment above that if we can't 100% the generator
> exception then we don't have any reason to ask for the generator
> exception to be reopened ...
>
> What perhaps is important, though, is that there is a solid basis at
> that point when the chairs re-assess the situation and draw a
> conclusion - because they don't like to go back and forth on issues.
>
> > 2. There has been consistent consensus within the a11y taskforce and
> > prior in the WAI-CG guidance on alt, that title not be considered
> > conforming when alt is absent. If the group wishes to reconsider this
> > in light of Leif's arguments then the move to re-open the decision
> > would be defunct and I would withdraw my proposal to re-open.
> >
> > To resolve this I suggest that we poll the group to find out whether
> > Leif's proposal changes the consensus of the group.
>
> My suggestion is that you look at my CP and steal as much as you can
> from it. I have yet to see that you have taken in *anything* that I
> have said on this issue.
>
> I'm still open to suggest that it should be an outright error to to not
> provide @alt rather only producing a warning - would you take it more
> seriously then?
>
> I'm not open to act as if I agree if I don't agree: what I have said in
> the CP I can also say in a poll, and the chairs would then have to
> consider it.
>
> Btw, strictly speaking, it is not currently (per the HTML5 spec)
> conforming to only provide @title *unless* the author unsuccessfully
> has put effort into creating @alt text. The main problem here, as I see
> it, is that it is entirely undiscoverable to anyone doing validation
> whether the author did so. Whether an error or warning, this creates
> opportunity to asses the quality more independent from the author's
> "efforts".
> --
> Leif H Silli




-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG

www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
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Received on Wednesday, 11 May 2011 15:43:31 GMT

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