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Re: Moving longdesc forward: Recap, updates, consensus

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 16:37:18 +0100
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>, Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>
Cc: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20110506152326.M60188@hicom.net>
> > I disagree with the "Hidden Meta-data Fallacy" section because I think
> > it misses the point of the visible data principle, which is that
> > visible data is less likely to be erroneous because most authors are
> > more likely to spot visible errors. Ultimately, it seems to boil down
> > to saying "longdesc" is discoverable, but that's undisputed so I think
> > the argument is a waste of space that is not going to change any
> > minds. I'd drop that section.
> 
> That section is based on Gregory's words. Gregory, are you okay with
> dropping the follwing section?
>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/InstateLongdesc#Hidden_Meta-data_Fallacy

no, i am NOT ok with dropping the Hidden Metadata Fallacy -- this is
a fundamental philosophical/logical principle: that discoverable metadata
is available for those who NEED it -- @summary for TABLE and @longdesc 
are intended to be used by a segment of the user community, without which
there would be serious obstacles to processing web-based information --
sighted users don't usually need instructions as to how to "walk a 
TABLE", but in a non-visual medium, one MUST walk the TABLE in order to
correctly process the tablized information -- most users will have this
function automatically provided to them by their natively supported 
brain and eyes combination -- the same goes for @longdesc, and there are
more compelling cases for exposition of @longdesc than there are for
@summary, because those with extremely limited viewports or with certain
cognitive issues may need the information contained in the @longdeesc in 
tandem with the image being described...

i will "bow" to the TF as to whether or not to retain this section, but
i, for one, think there is a crucial distinction between "hidden metadata"
and "discoverable metadata" -- one could call "hidden" any metadata
attached to an image (such as a JPEG file) which contains 
info about the camera, the resolution, and other technical metadata 
because when the image is rendered, such metadata is not immediately 
available to the user unless that metadata is extracted or exposed using
a specialized tool -- this is the entire point of such initiatives as 
the RDF in Photo work within the W3C and some of the other initiatives 
that laura has documented...

gregory.
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CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, 
not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of 
plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
                         -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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           Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
       Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
   Oedipus' Online COmplex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus/
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Received on Friday, 6 May 2011 15:38:16 GMT

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