Minutes of the HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 20 May 2010

The minutes of today's meeting are at 
http://www.w3.org/2010/05/20-html-a11y-minutes.html

==

- DRAFT -
HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
20 May 2010

Agenda

See also: IRC log
Attendees

Present
     Janina, John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Michael_Cooper, 
Janina_Sajka, allanj, Ben, kliehm, dsinger, Cynthia_Shelly
Regrets
     Laura_Carlson, Denis_Boudreau, Steven_Faulkner, Marco_Ranon
Chair
     Mike_Smith
Scribe
     Martin_Kliehm, MikeSmith, kliehm

Contents

* Topics
   1. Subteam reports
   2. Review of open bugs
* Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 20 May 2010

<oedipus> Identify Scribe 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

<scribe> scribe: Martin_Kliehm

<scribe> scribenick: kliehm

<MichaelC> My Tracker

<oedipus> open questionnaire: 
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080513_bugs/

ACTION-44?

<trackbot> ACTION-44 -- Cynthia Shelly to - monitor status of @alt in 
HTML5 spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is 
in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes 
to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc -- due 2010-05-20 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44

<cyns> can someone repeat the tracker link? I logged in right after

Cynthia: unclear about the scope of action

Mike: a heartbeat draft publication is imminent

<MikeSmith> Zakiem, call MIke

<oedipus> cfc for heartbeat publication (Sam Ruby) 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010May/0297.html

<MichaelC> action-44 due 27 May

<trackbot> ACTION-44 - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when 
SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's note 
supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5 based on 
SteveF's alt doc due date now 27 May
Subteam reports

<jsajka> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements

John Foliot: Regular call was yesterday. We've been doing a review of 
usecase requirements. It's a lengthy document, we moved it to the TF wiki.

<oedipus> minutes media subgroup meeting 2010-05-19: 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0143.html

John: We still need people reviewing the document. We need a more 
structured requirements document. Sylvia Pfeiffer has been going through 
it, work is ongoing.

<oedipus> Media Subgroup Minutes 2010-05-19

John: We are still looking for feedback from the community, i.e. a 
deafblind user. If anybody on the TF knows anybody who would benefit 
from captions please ask them for feedback.

<oedipus> 
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Google-to-Launch-WebM-Project-Along-with-Open-Source-VP8-Codec-142474.shtml

<MikeSmith> http://www.webmproject.org/code/specs/container/

John: Google announced VP8 release as open source yesterday. WebM has 
very strict requirements, so it was unclear whether it would be able to 
support captions. WebM site confirmed that it is possible, they will 
follow our recommendations.

<MikeSmith> "Initial WebM release does not support subtitles... WHATWG / 
W3C RFC will release guidance on subtitles and other overlays in HTML5 
<video> in the near future. WebM intends to follow that guidance."

Janina congratulates on the progress.

<JF> http://www.webmproject.org/

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html/wiki/Canvas

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Meetings

<dsinger_> What is the Apple question?

<dsinger_> Ok I will find and chase

<MikeSmith> 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0096.html

Janina: I talked with Rich Schwerdfeger today, there will be a call this 
week. They are still waiting for feedback from Apple. If Macej could 
help it would be appreciated.

<dsinger_> Thx, plz

<oedipus> "Maciej, will these 2D Context API changes work for Apple? I 
tried to make sure that the API changes would support selection tracking 
on Macs. If you could respond I would appreciate it. I sent the first 
draft of this to Apple on April 11 and received no feedback. Since then 
the changes have been editorial. I am doing my best to not have 
accessibility be a barrier to HTML 5 getting through last call."

<Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to mention that we need to get feedback 
from James Craig

Mike: I talked to Macej, we need to hear from James Craig who is back 
from vacations. Somebody please ping James regarding that message.

<eric_carlson> I will ping James

<dsinger_> We will (Eric and I)

Janina: We need feedback from Apple by Monday, May 24.
... ARIA, there are action items out, one of them was partially 
delivered on Tuesday, though many people are travelling this week, thus 
there was no subgroup telcon.
Review of open bugs

<oedipus> Opening Thoughts on WAI-ARIA in HTML5: 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0903.html (Al 
Gilman, July 2007)

<MikeSmith> action-26?

<trackbot> ACTION-26 -- Michael Cooper to review bugs for display, 
focus, labels, and semantics to 1) find originator, 2) propose 
disposition (work on, leave as is, push back on current status), 3) 
assign work items to people (possible originators) -- due 2010-04-14 -- 
PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/26

<oedipus> "Maintain equivalent or improved accessibility features of 
HTML 4.01" - has bug been filed?

<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask about restoring accessibility 
features to HTML5 pending improvements or replacements

Gregory: We discussed last week to file a bug about maintaining 
accessibility, see above.

<JF> +1 to that greg

<MichaelC> Michael's bug disposition proposals

<oedipus> MikeSmith: discussion at 
http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#item03

<MichaelC> Survey on some bug dispositions

Michael: I want to introduce a discussion about basic requirements 
before going into details.

<oedipus> Results of survey on some bug dispositions

Michael: While the spec is precise about UA parsing it is vague about 
user interface expectations for an element.

<oedipus> GJR notes that this is a topic (UI behavior) that was 
mentioned several times in HTML WG objection surveys

Michael: I think UI behavior should be defined to ensure accessibility. 
However, implementors have an interest to keep this open. We should at 
least mention some best practices.

<oedipus> Implementing UAAG 2.0

<oedipus> UAAG 2.0 Requirements Document

<oedipus> latest editor's draft of UAAG 2.0 (2010-04-30)

Michael: We should push that some of the requirements are integrated 
into the HTML spec. Are there concerns that rquirements are specified in 
external documents?

<oedipus> GJR notes that XHTML Access Module and proposed successor 
reference UAAG 1.0 by checkpoint in definition of access element

Janina: We wanted to maintain consistence and reduce redundance, in a 
recent meeting we agreed to cite WAI documents in order to achieve this.

<oedipus> if i had more time, i'd attend meetings

<oedipus> cover letter: The Access Element: Enabling Generic Document 
Accessibility [PFWG Proposed Internal Draft, 2010-05-19]

<oedipus> The Access Element: Enabling Generic Document Accessibility 
[PFWG Proposed Internal Draft, 2010-05-19]

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/element_versus_module

Jim, Michael: The UA WG doesn't have the resources with sufficient 
technical implementors background.

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/access_key_requirements

<JF> +q

<eric_carlson> Can someone please repeat exactly what the 
question/proposal is?

Janina, Michael: The question is whether we agree to extend our mandate 
to the UA WG. We should send the question to the list.

<oedipus> how to get more engineers' attention and time on UI 
interaction/interface

Eric: We would be more comfortable with the requirements in a separate 
document outside of the HTML5 spec.

Janina: That was also the guidance of the WAI AdHoc meeting.

<oedipus> sub-group of TF - UA interaction/interfaces - joint sub-group 
with UAAG WG members?

John: We've gone down that road with another document.

Jim: We have a UA meeting in an hour. I can bring it up. We can have 
people formally do stuff or set up a structure to cross-post on both 
lists and thus get more people involved.

<oedipus> proposed: the HTML A11y TF will ask UAAG WG to review UI 
interaction/interface issues in HTML5 and jointly work with TF to 
develop appropriate content in an appropriate document

<MikeSmith> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The TF believes that there are a number 
of bugs that are likely to be best resolved by adding text to existing 
or future UAWG deliverables rather than in the HTML5 spec itself.

<oedipus> didn't want to tie down at this point to a single document

<cyns> +1 oedipus

<inserted> scribe: MikeSmith

RESOLUTION: The HTML A11y TF will ask UAAG WG to review UI 
interaction/interface issues in HTML5 and jointly work with TF to 
develop appropriate content in an appropriate document.

<inserted> scribe: kliehm

<oedipus> plus 1

<cyns> OT: is there an html call today? I couldn't find the agenda.

Michael: There are a number of bugs which I think could be moved to an 
external spec.

<AllanJ> yes in irc

<MichaelC> I propose moving the following bugs to be addressed in an 
external UA resource: 8647, 8648, 8666, 8682, 8743, 8751

<MikeSmith> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20100520#l-103

Bug 8647: Define tab order for IFrame

Bug 8648: Title attribute on the IFrame element

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/wiki/IFRAME

Other bugs: Keyboard accessible date pickers, Tab and reading order for 
context menus, Auditory icons clashing with AT, User should have ability 
to override automatic scrolling

bug 8752: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8752 
gez.lemon@gmail.com, P2, RESOLVED NEEDSINFO, Allow user to manage focus 
changes

Michael: proposes to close the bug and comment that we withdraw objections.

Mike, Michael: Gez filed a large number of bugs on behalf of PF, thus he 
is listed as the reporter.

<oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/commands.html#command-facet-action

<JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8622

<oedipus> compare to http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-access/#sec_3.1.1.

<oedipus> "User agents MUST provide mechanisms for overriding the author 
setting with user-specified settings in order to ensure that the act of 
moving content focus does not cause the user agent to take any further 
action (as per Checkpoint 9.5 of UAAG 1.0)"

Michael: Proposes Jim as owner of bug 8622.

<JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8754

Michael: Bug regarding overflow content not being read by AT. Bug is 
marked "wontfix," I think this needs more investigation, proposes Gez Lemon.

<MikeSmith> see 
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-xhtml-syntax.html#margins-and-padding

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20080513_bugs/

Michael: The spec might need more refinement on the effect of 
overflow:hidden on assistive technologies. CSS WG might also be 
included. I will set up a survey on these bugs.

<MikeSmith> we are adjourned

Received on Thursday, 20 May 2010 16:17:47 UTC