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RE: aside and figure elements

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 17:37:53 +0200
To: Dean Leigh <dean.leigh@deanleigh.co.uk>
Cc: 'Laura Carlson' <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, 'Bruce Lawson' <brucel@opera.com>, 'Shelley Powers' <shelleyp@burningbird.net>, 'HTML WG' <public-html@w3.org>, 'HTML Accessibility Task Force' <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20100608173753198837.3f2f76e3@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Dean Leigh, Tue, 8 Jun 2010 15:29:17 +0100:
> Hi Leif,
>>         To use aria-describedby
>> 		(<article aria-describedby="aside-for-season1">)
>>         does not seem correct for something that is supposed to be only
>>         "content that is tangentially related".
> 
> I agree and I don't think aria-labelledby is intended for this purpose
> (albeit in the other element) either.

I said "aria-describedby", while you answered "aria-labelledby".  
Aria-Labelledby is meant, as I perceive it, as a solution for providing 
a minimum (or a "just enough, and nothing more" kind of) description. 
As such I think it is even less relevant than aria-describedby, since 
the latter is [1] "intended to provide additional detail that some 
users might need". It was this "that some users might need" that seemed 
to me as "tangentially related" to - well - the concept of being 
tangentially related.

So let us conclude that neither aria-labelledby or aria-describedby are 
useful for this. ;-)

> aria-flowto could work but I am not sure how the users then gets back to the
> article from the aside and again I am not sure this is what it was designed
> for.

It doesn't seem like it could work to me, because - if your are in the 
midst of an article, then it seems more logical to jump over an aside 
that "suddenly" pops up, rather than jumping into it. 

That said: if you meant that aria-flowto could be used inside the 
*aside*, then I would agree:

	<aside 
			aria-flowto="back_to_the_element_that_this_is_an_aside_to">
         
    </aside>

> However, if the <aside> element is considered theoretically a child  (but
> not in the DOM)

I guess I understand what you mean: <input id="name"> is also 
"theoretically" a child of  <label id="name"></label>. But the optimal 
thing is if <input> is a child of <label> both in theory and in praxis 
(= the DOM) <label>.

> of an element or group of elements then could the accessible
> alternative be aria-owns?

Good point. Yes, it sounds like there could be a case for the 
following, when necessary:

	<article 
			aria-owns="an-aside-somewhere" >
    	
	</article>
 
> aria-owns
> Identifies an element (or elements) in order to define a visual, functional,
> or contextual parent/child relationship between DOM elements where the DOM
> hierarchy cannot be used to represent the relationship.
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Tuesday, 8 June 2010 15:39:00 GMT

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