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Re: aside and figure elements

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:12:39 +0200
To: Shelley Powers <shelleyp@burningbird.net>
Cc: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20100607211239723483.78152e9f@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Hi Shelly, 

Shelley Powers, Mon, 07 Jun 2010 13:42:01 -0500:
> Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
>> Shelley Powers, Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:17:19 -0500:
    [...]
>>> I would say that img should be treated the same, regardless of 
>>> whether it's in a figure element or not. It should have a non-empty 
>>> alt tag. We hope people would have enough commonsense not to use 
>>> figure for a decorative image.
>>>     
>> 
>> You yourself have quoted the example from WAI-ARIA (because you 
>> recommend using @role and aria-* rather than <figure>), where there 
>> is a caption *and* the image has role="presentation". Sorry, but I 
>> quote it again:
>> 
>> <div role="img" aria-labelledby="caption">
>>   <img src="example.png" role="presentation" alt="">
>>   <p id="caption">A visible text caption labeling the image.</p>
>> </div>
>> 
>> So even if the one - or all - <img> elements of a <figure> are 
>> defined to have role="presentation", that doesn't mean that the 
>> image as such is presentational.   
> 
> 
> My example in my counter-proposal was the following:

Correct. I now see that I overlooked that you actually stated that you 
- for some reason - modified the WAI-ARIA example - my emphasis:   

]] 
As an example, in the WAI-ARIA 1.0 specification, there is an image 
listing _that_I_modified_, below: 
[[

> <div role="img" aria-labelledby="caption">
>    <img src="example.png" alt="Some descriptive text">
>    <p id="caption">A visible text caption labeling the image.</p>
>  </div>
>
> Which I believed to be equivalent to figure and figcaption.

It should be damn close. Including the way that you designate the role 
of the <div> container to be role="img". The only thing I don't grok, 
is why you found it necessary to a) add content to @alt and b) remove 
role="presentation" - I don't see that this increases the similarity. 
 
> I don't believe I referenced role="presentation".

No. You modified the example, for some reason.
 
> And the role=presentation has some interesting semantics that make 
> its use with figure an interesting challenge. If you attach it to 
> figure, the figure element isn't mapped to the accessibility API, but 
> supposedly the contents could be.
> 
> I would think using figure with role="presentation" is opening a can 
> of worms with potentially conflicting semantics.

If you think so, then you should also take it up in context of 
WAI-ARIA. I, for one, find myself finding WAI-ARIA completely rational. 
I must say that I really  have trouble seeing how the following can by 
any more controversial ...

	<figure role="img">
	  <img src="example.png" role="presentation" alt="">
	  <summary>A visible text caption labeling the image.</summary>
	</figure>

.... than this (WAI-ARIA's example):

	<div role="img" aria-labelledby="caption">
	  <img src="example.png" role="presentation" alt="">
	  <p id="caption">A visible text caption labeling the image.</p>
	</div>
-- 
leif halvard silli
Received on Monday, 7 June 2010 19:13:16 GMT

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