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Re: aside and figure elements

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 19:45:59 +0200
To: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: Bruce Lawson <brucel@opera.com>, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Shelley Powers <shelleyp@burningbird.net>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20100607194559991397.a99726fd@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Ah, now (think) I understand your thinking. Please note that this is 
permitted, despite that is not a group of elements, but only a single 
element:

<img role="img" alt=" Alt text. " src="image" >

Leif


Leif Halvard Silli, Mon, 7 Jun 2010 19:41:37 +0200:
> Steven Faulkner, Mon, 7 Jun 2010 18:34:40 +0100:
>> hi leif,
>> 
>>> But this does not rule out using <figure role="img">
>> 
>> ONLY if the images are meant to be percieved as a single image:
>> 
>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#img
>> "An img represents a single graphic within a document, whether or not
>> it is formed by a collection of drawing objects."
> 
> Right. But that is the kind of debate we have? This debate does focus 
> almost solely on the case when <figure> is used to give an <img> a 
> caption.
> 
> Leif H.
> 
>> regards
>> stevef
>> 
>> 2010/6/7 Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>:
>>> Steven Faulkner, Mon, 7 Jun 2010 16:19:11 +0100:
>>>>> Again, Steve, you did not answer one of my questions previously: what
>>>>> is the default ARIA role for <figure> *itself*?
>>>> 
>>>> leif try reading what i wrote in my original email on this thread:
>>>> 
>>>> # <figure> should be mapped to accessibility APIs as a grouping
>>>> element like <p> or <div>
>>>> 
>>>> in other words role="group"
>>> 
>>> Thanks, I'm sorry I did not looked harder before asking. But this does
>>> not rule out using <figure role="img">. Firstly, quoting ARIA,
>>> role="img" designate a group *as well*:
>>> 
>>> ]]
>>> group
>>>    A set of user interface objects which are not intended be included
>>> in a page summary or table of contents by assistive technologies.
>>> []
>>> img
>>>    A container for a collection of elements that form an image.
>>> [[
>>> 
>>> Secondly, an img doesn't take part in in the TOC.
>>> 
>>> Leif Halvard Silli
>>> 
>>>> regards
>>>> stevef
>>>> 
>>>> On 7 June 2010 16:10, Leif Halvard Silli
>>>> <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:
>>>>> Steven Faulkner, Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:19:09 +0100:
>>>>>> hi bruce,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <figure>
>>>>>>> <img src=ceo.jpg alt="">
>>>>>>> <figcaption>Brian Slick, CEO of Blammo Corp, leveraging a
>>>>>>> synergy</figcaption>
>>>>>>> </figure>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> seems entirely accessible (?)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> the issue i see with this is that using alt="" says the image can be
>>>>>> safely ignored. A caption is a label for something so the presence of
>>>>>> the image needs to be exposed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is no different from the WAI-ARIA example - WAI-ARIA does not
>>>>> think it has to "be exposed":
>>>>> 
>>>>> <div role="img" aria-labelledby="caption">
>>>>> <img src="example.png" role="presentation" alt="">
>>>>> <p id="caption">A visible text caption labeling the image.</p>
>>>>> </div>
>>>>> 
>>>>>> when <figcaption> is supported in browsers the mapping will be
>>>>>> provided so that:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> <figure><img src=ceo.jpg alt="Brian Slick, CEO of Blammo Corp,
>>>>>> leveraging a synergy"></figure>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> <figure>
>>>>>> <img src=ceo.jpg>
>>>>>> <figcaption>Brian Slick, CEO of Blammo Corp, leveraging a
>>>>>> synergy</figcaption>
>>>>>> </figure>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> will both provide the accessible name as "Brian Slick, CEO of Blammo
>>>>>> Corp, leveraging a synergy"
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The proper solution to Bruce's example ought to be be this:
>>>>> 
>>>>> <figure role="img" >
>>>>> <img src=ceo.jpg alt="">
>>>>> <summary>Brian Slick, CEO of Blammo Corp, leveraging a
>>>>> synergy</sumamry>
>>>>> </figure>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, there are some backward compatibility issues. We have to discuss
>>>>> how we can be *both* backward compatible *and* HTML5 compatible.
>>>>> --
>>>>> leif halvard silli
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> with regards
>>>> 
>>>> Steve Faulkner
>>>> Technical Director - TPG Europe
>>>> Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium
>>>> 
>>>> www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
>>>> Web Accessibility Toolbar -
>>>> http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> with regards
>> 
>> Steve Faulkner
>> Technical Director - TPG Europe
>> Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium
>> 
>> www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
>> Web Accessibility Toolbar -
>> http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Monday, 7 June 2010 17:47:05 GMT

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