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Re: [HTML5 ALT] alt text is brief; example 6.1 should be modified or deleted

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 15:25:43 +0100
To: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: wai-xtech@w3.org, public-html-a11y@w3.org
Message-Id: <20100603142325.M53813@hicom.net>
aloha, steve!

thank you for your quick and positive response -- could you please
file the bug for me?  i have enough of a headache without wrestling 
with bugzilla and, in any evet, my w3c bugzilla account won't 
authenticate -- thanks, gregory.
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ABNORMAL, adj.  Not conforming to standard.  In matters of thought and 
conduct, to be independent is to be abnormal, to be abnormal is to be 
detested.                    -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net
      Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
                 Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus/
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---------- Original Message -----------
From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
Cc: wai-xtech@w3.org
Sent: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 14:47:26 +0100
Subject: Re: [HTML5 ALT] alt text is brief; example 6.1 should be 
modified or deleted

> Hi gregory thanks for the feedback, can you submit as a bug so I 
> can track the issue?
> 
> file a bug:
> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%
20WG&component=alt%20techniques%20(editor:%20Steven%20Faulkner)
> 
> If it's too much hassle i can do so on your behalf.
> 
> best regards
> Stevef
> 
> On 3 June 2010 08:17, Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net> wrote:
> > aloha, steve!
> >
> > overall, i am really impressed with the work you've done on
> > the HTML5 Techniques for providing useful text alternatives
> > draft (congrats on getting a public draft approved) -- but in
> > re-reading and discussing the draft i've run into the same reaction
> > i first had when i reviewed an earlier draft of the document, and i
> > believe it is an example that you inherited from a previous HTML5
> > draft:
> >
> > QUOTE source="http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/#images-enhance"
> >
> > Example 6.1
> > Here is an example of an image closely related to the subject matter 
of
> > the page content but not directly discussed. An image of a painting
> > inspired by a poem, on a page reciting that poem. The following 
snippet
> > shows an example. The image is a painting titled the "Lady of 
Shallot",
> > it is inspired by the poem and its subject matter is derived from the
> > poem. Therefore it is strongly recommended that a text alternative is
> > provided. The description of the content of the image would be 
redundant
> > for users who can view the image, so the appropriate place to put it 
is
> > in the alt attribute.
> >
> > Example code:
> >
> > <hgroup><h1>The Lady of Shalott</h1>
> > <h2>A poem by Alfred Lord Tennyson</h2></hgroup>
> > <figure><img src="shalott.jpeg" alt="A painting of a young women with
> > long hair sitting in a wooden boat, she is wearing a flowing white
> > dress. A large piece of intricately patterned fabric is draped over
> > the side. In her right hand she holds the chain mooring the boat. Her
> > expression is mournful. She stares at a crucifix lying in front of
> > her. Beside it are three candles. Two have blown out."></figure>
> > UNQUOTE
> >
> > example 6.1 is a poor example of alt text useage, and as such should
> > be deleted or modified -- alt text is the brief "at a glance" or
> > "congnative thumbnail", so the extremely long value defined for the
> > example isn't appropriate as alt text, but as a concise long
> > description; alt text needs to be terse for a number of reasons,
> > including usability, extremely limited viewports, small amount of 
video
> > "real estate" (iPad and smaller devices) etc.
> >
> > 358 characters isn't a terse descriptor or cognative thumbnail -- this
> > seems to me a case where a picture may be worth at least 358 words, 
but
> > only make me listen to all 365 if i want/need to if i ask for it,
> > explicitly or via user preferences -- i also need a means of being
> > alerted that a longer description is available, and, if need be, need
> > to have side-by-side exposition of longdesc with image option 
available,
> > for someone with an EXTREMELY limited viewport or a user with a 
cognative
> > disability with or without AT, who is attempting to compile a
> > comprehensive view of the image being described
> >
> > is this something that can be fixed?  do you think it advisable to
> > state only "terse, short, cognitive thumbnails, such as those used
> > in the examples below" be used for alt values, as i for one would not
> > want to set a hard cap on the MaxValue of alt text, but do want
> > developers/content creators to realize just what alt text actually
> > is and what longer descriptors are, as well as the need for robust
> > support for them
> >
> > apologies for not having commented upon this earlier -- it fell 
through
> > the holes in the sieve i call my mind and slipped down on my ToDo list
> > until it was off my radar until i was very recently reminded of it --
> > thanks to all who helped "jog" my memory...
> >
> > gregory.
> >  ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  "Kill the rattlesnake that gives no warning; spare the one that
> >   does."                                    -- Lenni Lenape proverb
> >  ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >                Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
> >  Camera Obscura:           http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/index.html
> >  Oedipus' Online Complex:  http://my.opera.com/oedipus/
> >  UBATS - United Blind Advocates for Talking Signs: http://ubats.org
> >  ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> with regards
> 
> Steve Faulkner
> Technical Director - TPG Europe
> Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium
> 
> www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
> Web Accessibility Toolbar -
> http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
------- End of Original Message -------
Received on Thursday, 3 June 2010 14:26:27 GMT

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