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minutes of 2010-07-01 telcon

From: Michael(tm) Smith <mike@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 01:21:15 +0900
To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
Message-ID: <20100701162113.GA93539@sideshowbarker>
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-html-a11y-minutes.html

   Present
          Eric, Michael_Cooper, John, Ben_Caldwell, Steve_Faulkner,
          Rich, MikeSmith, Cynthia_Shelly, dsinger

   Regrets
          Martin_Kliehm, Denis_Boudreau, Laura_Carlson, Paul_Cotton,
          chaals

   Chair
          MikeSmith

   Scribe
          Stevef

     * Topics
         1. Do once-over of previous meeting minutes
         2. Review open action items
         3. Media team; requirements
         4. Make drag-and-drop events keyboard-activatable; Let's
            crank up sense of urgency
         5. ARIA team; ARIA-in-HTML conformance spec text
     * Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <MichaelC_> trackbot, start meeting

   <trackbot> Date: 01 July 2010

   <Marco_Ranon> Hi all. Is Zakim UK still not working?

   <Marco_Ranon> Hi Michael. I will have to follow on irc then.

   <Marco_Ranon> no worries.

   <Marco_Ranon> Unfortunately i can use skype from the office. I will
   next week if zackimis still down.

   <Marco_Ranon> can't use skype...

   <MikeSmith> Scribe List

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

   <MikeSmith> 2010-06-34 minutes

      http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-html-a11y-minutes.html

   <MikeSmith> Open Actions

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open

   <MikeSmith> Media Accessibility Requirements

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements

   <MikeSmith> proposed replacement spec text

      http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html

   <MikeSmith> ARIA in HTML5 Change Proposal

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5

   <MikeSmith> API mappings

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/att-0216/mapping.html

   <MikeSmith> need drag-and-drop implementor feedback

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0258.html

   <MikeSmith> Weekly Resolved & Rejected Bugs Report

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0238.html

   <MikeSmith> scribe: Stevef

Do once-over of previous meeting minutes

   <MikeSmith> 2010-06-34 minutes

      http://www.w3.org/2010/06/24-html-a11y-minutes.html

   MikeSmith: take a look at the prvious meet minutes
   ... no chnage in meeting time

Review open action items

   <MikeSmith> Open Actions

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open

   <MikeSmith> action-50?

   <trackbot> ACTION-50 -- Janina Sajka to add some introductory text
   to requirement docs clarifying that these are user requirements, not
   necessarily UA requirements -- due 2010-06-23 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/50

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/50

   MikeSmith: did janina do this?,

   eric: looking at making mods to wiki re this

   <MikeSmith> action-50 due 2010-07-09

   <trackbot> ACTION-50 Add some introductory text to requirement docs
   clarifying that these are user requirements, not necessarily UA
   requirements due date now 2010-07-09

   eric: 2 batches of repsonses, looking for final sighnoff from larger
   group

   <MikeSmith> action-47?

   <trackbot> ACTION-47 -- Steve Faulkner to file a bug with HTML 5
   about making autocomplete consistent with ARIA, per comment 289
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289 --
   due 2010-07-01 -- OPEN

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/47

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/47

   <MikeSmith> action-47 due 2010-07-09

   <trackbot> ACTION-47 File a bug with HTML 5 about making
   autocomplete consistent with ARIA, per comment 289
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289
   due date now 2010-07-09

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289

   SF: not done

   <MikeSmith> action-46?

   <trackbot> ACTION-46 -- Jim Allan to work with WAI UAWG to find home
   for "image analysis heuristics" text from HTML5 spec (HTML WG issue
   66) -- due 2010-07-08 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/46

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/46

   Msmith: jim will report back next week

   <MikeSmith> action-44?

   <trackbot> ACTION-44 -- Cynthia Shelly to - monitor status of @alt
   in HTML5 spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that
   what is in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage;
   propose changes to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc -- due 2010-07-01
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44

   <JF> +Q

   cynthia: can do this week

   <MikeSmith> action-44 due 2010-07-09

   <trackbot> ACTION-44 - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when
   SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's
   note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5
   based on SteveF's alt doc due date now 2010-07-09

   <MikeSmith> action-44 due 2010-07-08

   <trackbot> ACTION-44 - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when
   SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's
   note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5
   based on SteveF's alt doc due date now 2010-07-08

   <MikeSmith> action-47 due 2010-07-08

   <trackbot> ACTION-47 File a bug with HTML 5 about making
   autocomplete consistent with ARIA, per comment 289
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289
   due date now 2010-07-08

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289

   <MikeSmith> action-50 due 2010-07-08

   <trackbot> ACTION-50 Add some introductory text to requirement docs
   clarifying that these are user requirements, not necessarily UA
   requirements due date now 2010-07-08

   <dsinger__> Um, what is a user req? "the user must X?"

   <dsinger__> Ow

   <MikeSmith> Guide/text-alternatives

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Guide/text-alternatives

   <MikeSmith> above is a page I wrote for explaining current validator
   behavior

   cynthia: need to respond to rationale requirements for
   role=presentation, aria-lablledby etc

   mikesmith: steve to take action on rationale for labelledby and
   presentation etc

   <MikeSmith> ACTION: Steven to document rationale for why having
   aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt
   (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Steven

   <MikeSmith> ACTION: Steve to document rationale for why having
   aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt
   (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Document rationale for why having
   aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt
   (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) [on Steve Faulkner - due
   2010-07-08].

   <MikeSmith> action-44?

   <trackbot> ACTION-44 -- Cynthia Shelly to - monitor status of @alt
   in HTML5 spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that
   what is in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage;
   propose changes to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc -- due 2010-07-08
   -- OPEN

   <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44

   JF: what is the relationship between issue 31 and action 44?

   <MikeSmith> making HTML document conformance depend on ARIA
   seems like a layering violation to me (Hixie)

      http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6496#c1

   JF: supports direction of alt document. and we will extract info
   from main spec.

   <MikeSmith> seems useful not to pretend that HTML and ARIA exist
   on different layers (Henri)

      http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6496#c2

   JF: precedence for authroing reuqiremnts to be moved to external
   documents

   MikeSmith: not soemthing we will resolve today
   ... cynthia is going to file a bug on HTML5 in regards to whats in
   the spec

   <JF> +1 to cyns suggestion to discuss meta issue re author guidance

   <JF> next weekl

   <MikeSmith> I suggest sending mail to request this be added to the
   agenda for next week's a11y call

   <JF> will do that MikeS

Media team; requirements

   cynthia: i have been isntructed to say dinosaurs

   <MikeSmith> >
   http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requireme
   nts Media Accessibility Requirements

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements

   JF: status had stwra poll, useful feedback, subgroup split comments
   up and went through issues
   ... first batch of responses posted yeaterday, 2nd batch will be
   posted soon
   ... desire is to by july 6 will have requirements doc baked
   ... need to start mapping to technical requirements
   ... please have a read,

   Mike: what do wee need to do after that? specific need for
   identifying requirments for captioning format, so hope we can
   quickly get requirements for format for captioning, prioritise this
   ... need resolution

   JF: it is the large questionm, discussion on track element as
   switching mechansism, looking at 3 spec SMIL /TTML/ WEBSRT
   ... it is the large questionm, discussion on track element as
   switching mechansism, looking at 3 spec SMIL /TTML/ WEBSRT
   ... whatg is creating websrt as there was no hard documentation on
   SRT
   ... sub group have not lloked at any timestamp formats deeply
   ... conclusions on format will be based on requirements doc

   Dsinger: important not to forget that captioning can be embedded
   within the media themselves

   JF: is part of equation

   <MikeSmith> Media MultitrackAPI

      http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_MultitrackAPI

   <dsinger__> Yes, true, but 3gpp timed text is quite popular

   JF: some timestamp formats are just bitmaps, can't extract anything
   useful (unless we use imag analysis)
   ... probably will be the last issue
   ... in terms of resolution, yes JS API is uncontentious willl be
   pushed soon
   ... have been discussions abotu daisy support, some support
   ... timeframe is everything is urgent, clock ticking, buit balance
   with getting it right
   ... hope resolution will happen this year

   Mike: itmust be done on time or not done at all, having
   implementations and still arguing about requirements

   <eric_carlson> +1

   JF: do we want another canvas issue?

   MikeSmith: best way to ensure we don't have a rerun of canvas,
   decision about captioning is highest priority

   Mike: if requirements is not getting us closer to that then we need
   to change course

   JF: don't disagree

   <richardschwerdtfe> net is we are addressing accessibility late in
   the game and getting consensus is a herding cats process

Make drag-and-drop events keyboard-activatable; Let's crank up sense of
urgency

   mike: only 1 repsonse to drag and drop, webkit - no reason why it
   coiuld not be made keyboard activatable
   ... is this an issue
   ... there is an assumption that in the spec, everything should be
   accessible and doable via keyboard

   <MikeSmith> need drag-and-drop implementor feedback

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0258.html

   <dsinger__> I hope that we retain 'virtual' interfaces (keyboard,
   pointer etc.) that can be realized in many physical ways

ARIA team; ARIA-in-HTML conformance spec text

   <MikeSmith> >
   http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal
   .html proposed replacement spec text

      http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/HTML5/aria-html5-proposal.html

   <MikeSmith> >
   http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5 "ARIA
   in HTML5" Change Proposal

      http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5

   <MikeSmith> API mappings

      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/att-0216/mapping.html

   <MikeSmith> need to move forward with straw poll and ARIA-HTML5 spec
   text

   <richardschwerdtfe> dropping off

   <MikeSmith> [adjourned]

   <Marco_Ranon> bye

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Steve to document rationale for why having
   aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt
   (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Steven to document rationale for why having
   aria-labelledby should be an exception for not allowing alt
   (rebuttal to "layering violation" argument) [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2010/07/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

-- 
Michael(tm) Smith
http://people.w3.org/mike
Received on Thursday, 1 July 2010 16:21:24 GMT

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