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minutes: HTML A11y TF telecon 2010-01-14 [draft]

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:23:30 +0000
To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
Message-Id: <20100114172033.M81243@hicom.net>

aloha!

minutes from the 14 January 2010 HTML Accessibility Task Force telecon
are available as hypertext at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-minutes.html

as an IRC log at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-irc

and as plain text following my signature; thanks to Steven Faulkner for
scribing the entire meeting -- as usual, comments, corrections, 
mis-attributions and the like should be logged by replying-to this 
announcement on-list.

note that 2 new action items were assigned at today's HTML A11y TF call:

   * ACTION-10: GJR work with Wendy on user-side of what AT needs in
   order to communicate meaningful info to AT user
   [recorded in: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/10]

   * ACTION-11: Gregory - report on timeline for summary verbiage about
   what AT needs to communicate and report back to HTML5 A11y TF
   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/11]

the next HTML Accessibility Task Force meeting will be held on 
21 January 2010 at 1600h UTC

thanks, gregory.
     _________________________________________________________________

                                   - DRAFT -

                 HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
                                  14 Jan 2010

Agenda:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0192.html

   See also: IRC log [http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-irc]

Attendees

   Present
          Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot, Janina, Michael_Cooper,
          Ben_Caldwell, Paul_Cotton, dsinger, Marco_Ranon, Matt,
          +1.617.300.aaaa, Geoff_Freed, Cynthia_Shelly, Steve_Faulkner,
          kliehm, Rich_Schwerdtfeger

   Regrets
          Jim_Allen, Laura_Carlson, Stéphane_Deschamps, Kelly_Ford,
          Gez_Lemon, Aurélien_Levy, Sylvia_Pfeiffer, Markku_Hakkinen,
          Henny_Swan, Wendy_Chisholm

   Chair
          Janina_Sajka

   Scribe
          Stevef

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Action Item Review
         2. Face2Face Planning for HTML A11y TF
         3. @summary for TABLE proposal update
     * Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 14 January 2010

   <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

   <janina> agenda: this

   <oedipus> agenda archived at:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0192.html

   <MichaelC> scribe: Stevef

   <oedipus> update on GJR actions:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0172.html
     _________________________________________________________________

Action Item Review

   janina: review action items

   GJR: action item was to take the google spreadsheet and make it
   accessible, not my job

   cyns: not a large doc, but needs to stay in table format

   <oedipus> collaborative content should always meet a11y requirements

   <oedipus> problem isn't just table, but color-coding

   MC: you and steve are working on it more.

   <oedipus> thank y'all VERY much (not sarcastic)

   <oedipus> SF: need GJR's help

   MC draft in 2 weeks

   MC 28th on cyns

   <oedipus> GJR: will help if can get document source and gloss on
   color-coding

   MC: action on cyns: follow up with IE team on mapping logic

   MC last action on me, have not domne it

   <janina> test

   <mattmay> MichaelC, you're disconnected.
     _________________________________________________________________

Face2Face Planning for HTML A11y TF

   janina: discussing prospect of face2face, lost of work and a well
   organized face to face can do that
   ... will be a web survey about attendance published soon
   ... at least 60 days +

   <oedipus> SF: if in states, why not aim for CSUN 2010 (22-27 March
   2010)

   <oedipus> PC: also SXSW

   <oedipus> SF: if come to CSUN, won't be able to travel to U.S. for
   subsequent meeting

   <oedipus> JS: issue around CSUN is sponsorship in San Diego

   stevef: think about holding around csun,

   <oedipus> CS: have offices in california, too - might be host site in
   bay area

   <oedipus> JF: could help in organizing bay area

   cyns: microsoft has offices in bay area, also j foliot may be able to
   help in bay area

   pallcotton: strongly agree need to make progress, general question,
   isn't scheduling a meeting in april sending a message that we won't be
   finsihed before april

   janina: not sure we will be finsihed by April, still bugs being filed

   paulcotton; accessibility issues will be longpole., so need to start
   setting the HTML wg expectations

   janina: we can do that to an extent, but still need to process
   incoming bugs
   ... 2-3 weeks away for being able to scope work to be done

   paulcotton: need to communicate with html wg on progress

   MC: need f2f to get a lot done, some issues cannot be addressed before
   last call, so need to prioritise pre/post last call

   janina: schedule f2f to aim to get wide participation

   <oedipus> mixed physical and virtual f2f?

   kliehm: if official titmframe is 60, should grab any opportunity to
   meet informally

   janina: could get a decision on meeting

   MC: csun good time for meet as lost of accessibility specialists will
   be around, but also think about other people that want to be involved

   janina: laura is providing weekly report on a11y bugs, but will defer
   going through bugs until next week

   <oedipus> laura's bug collection:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0066.html

   <oedipus>
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0155.html
     _________________________________________________________________

@summary for TABLE proposal update

   cyns: overview of summary proposal, no change to changes proposal, all
   is in mail sent to list

   <oedipus> Cyns' summary summary:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0157.html

   <oedipus> maciej's reply to Cyns:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0159.html

   cyns: recommending a UI toggle for browsers to show/hide metadata,
   also browsers may show summary in editing scenarios, converstaions
   with wendy chisolm about summary, added an orientation attribute, not
   very easy for AT to work out form table
   ... make things easier for AT, to provide info to users rather than
   asking authors to summarise table structure in prose
   ... orientation is one of those, wnedy looking at AT and what they
   could benefit from table markup
   ... makingh the need for summary less frequent, by giving AT info to
   derive structure via markup.
   ... describing trends and relationships that are visibly obvious, but
   not clear for all
   ... orientaion defines order and sorting, but wnedy wnats to work on
   this more
   ... some proposals on list to use aria-sort

   <oedipus> SF: 1 thing that's concerned me is should we be advocating
   its use at this time - summary and longdesc have support in some major
   ATs, don't have support in a lot of other AT - telling people to put
   info into place that locks it away from AT users will be very
   problemmatic

   <oedipus> CS: WCAG support issue

   <richardschwerdtfe> I don't like longdesc

   <oedipus> JS: recommending UI's be able to expose hidden meta-data to
   anybody

   <richardschwerdtfe> authors almost never use it

   rich: really? i never realized :-)

   GJR: there is a limited amount of utility for users to be provided
   with logistical info about tables

   cyns: will you work with wnedy on this

   GJR: yes

   <oedipus> ACTION: GJR work with Wendy on user-side of what AT needs in
   order to communicate meaningful info to AT user [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Work with Wendy on user-side of what AT
   needs in order to communicate meaningful info to AT user [on Gregory
   Rosmaita - due 2010-01-21].

   <richardschwerdtfe> two things I despise in HTML - acckess key and
   longdesc

   janina: how much can profitably be derived from markup

   <oedipus> gez's comment on auto-summary:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0162.html

   cyns: AT still having probs with row and colspans
   ... we usually let AT off the hook

   <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say that logistical statistics are of
   limited use to the AT user

   cyns: but AT need to step up, AT should be able to provide it

   janina: are we at consensus, should we go point by point to get an
   idea of consensus?

   cyns: concerned about just submitting change proposal without
   associated bits

   janina: take it as given as other stuff will be raised

   johnf: is with janina on this

   cyns: expect pushback for htmlwg hope there is not pushback from
   accessibility community, if its just summary could have ready in a
   week
   ... more likely to approve orientation rather than summary, not sure
   how to proceed
   ... put simple summary change prosal with heading listing other
   chnages

   <oedipus> SF: want to ask does proposal contain alternative spec-ready
   text?

   <oedipus> CS: yes

   cyns: does our wiki arcg=hive previous version?

   GJR: yes

   <oedipus> FIVE MINUTE WARNING

   janina: due dates?
   ... lets have 2 action items, chnage proposal on summary netx week and
   also report back on timeline for fucrther changes

   GJR: will report on timeline

   cyns: may need one off meet to diicuss

   <oedipus> ACTION: Gregory - report on timeline for summary verbiage
   about what AT needs to communicate and report back to HTML5 A11y TF
   [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - - report on timeline for summary
   verbiage about what AT needs to communicate and report back to HTML5
   A11y TF [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2010-01-21].

   mattmay: has open action in reference to image analysis, image anaysis
   is described as adequate alternative for human generated text
   alternatives, but it is not

   <mattmay> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ChangeProposals/ImageHeuristics

   mattmay: please have a look, I plan on submitting before deadline

   janina: should be getting to alt as it is very important to
   accessibility

   cyns: some people mentioned it may be useful to have a survey about
   hidden metadata
   ... such as alt, summary etc

   <oedipus> terminology nit: it is not "hidden meta-data" we are dealing
   with, but "discoverable meta-data" is what i believe @summary should
   be

   janina: wrpa it up, thanks all, see you next week

   GJR: will wrap (thanks gregory)

   <oedipus> thanks steveF for scribing
     _________________________________________________________________

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: GJR work with Wendy on user-side of what AT needs in
   order to communicate meaningful info to AT user [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Gregory - report on timeline for summary verbiage about
   what AT needs to communicate and report back to HTML5 A11y TF
   [recorded in
   http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 14 January 2010 17:24:01 GMT

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