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Re: Change Proposal text for HTML WG ISSUE-122 (HTML5 section 4.8.1.1.7)

From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 07:32:53 -0600
Message-ID: <AANLkTin_RDNiJ10hnagFA4PhqAVZQ34weAGKHvYUJbuU@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-html-a11y@w3.org, oedipus@hicom.net
Cc: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Hello everyone,

On 12/3/10, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I'm willing to bet there isn't likely a great
>> discrepency. Is there?
>
> Yes there is a big difference in scope and action.
>
>> I will take a look later today.

On thing I would like to point out about Gregory's change proposal
[1]. Its narrow scope assumes the answer to one of the questions [3]
and the outcome of Issue 31. It assumes that Ian's change proposal [2]
will prevail and the possible values of the text alternatives be
defined in the HTML5 spec.

Both Issue HTML-ISSUE-31 and HTML-ISSUE-122 concern text alternative
values examples in the <img> element design space. Both issues
overlap. Issue-122's scope was expanded to apply to all WG
deliverables.

A couple other text alternative problems that are narrow in scope but
are in the same <img> element design space as Issue 31:

* CAPTCHA Bug 9216 on HTML5 [4] and CAPTCHA Bug 9169 on Techniques for
providing useful text alternatives [5].
* Webcam Bug 9215 on HTML5 [6] and Webcam Bug 9174 on Techniques for
providing useful text alternatives [7].

Both the HTML5 Spec and the Techniques for providing useful text
alternatives are in direct conflict. I haven't raised these as
individual issues in the Tracker yet as the decision for Issue 31 may
possibly resolve them.

Best Regards,
Laura

[1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images
[2] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElementSurveyConformaceChoices#3._Text_Alternative_Examples_Question:_.22Where.2Fwho_will_define_requirements_on_the_possible_values_of_text_alternatives_examples.3F.22
[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0050.html
[4] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9216
[5] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9169
[6] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9215
[7] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9174

On 12/3/10, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I'm willing to bet there isn't likely a great
>> discrepency. Is there?
>
> Yes there is a big difference in scope and action.
>
>> I will take a look later today.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> On 12/3/10, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
>> Dear Laura:
>>
>> Well, it seems we've had too many cooks in the kitchen. I'm very, very
>> sorry. As Gregory notes in his message, we did assign him an action on
>> this at TPAC. Regretably, that action, along with several others from
>> TPAC, were logged in the WG tracker and not the TF tracker. I guess we
>> missed moving it back to TF. And, I clearly missed your email.
>>
>> So, we probably don't need both change proposals before the WG. While
>> I've yet to read yours, I'm willing to bet there isn't likely a great
>> discrepency. Is there? I will take a look later today.
>>
>> My suggestion is that we put our heads together and decide which one to
>> pull--assuming the differences are, in fact, cosmetic.
>>
>> Janina
>>
>> Laura Carlson writes:
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>
>>> > As determined at the Task Force teleconference on 2 December, we will
>>> > forward the below referenced change proposal to the HTML WG as our
>>> > recommendation this weekend unless a serious, substantive objection is
>>> > raised on list meantime.
>>> >
>>> > If you have such an objection, please reply on list to this email.
>>> >
>>> >  Today's minutes,where thic source of action is decided, can be found
>>> >  at: http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html
>>>
>>> Paul sent his email to this task force expanding scope and calling for
>>> Counter-Proposals for Issue 122 on November 5. In that message the
>>> HTML Chairs set a deadline to "submit counter-proposals, alternate
>>> proposals and revised proposals for this issue by November 27, with
>>> the understanding that it applies to all HTML WG publications." [1]
>>> Today is December 2. Paul, Maciej, and Sam was this a real deadline?
>>>
>>> I drafted and submitted a change proposal [2] for Issue 122. This task
>>> force and the WG was alerted to that November 7. [3] From the minutes
>>> it doesn't seem that it was considered at the accessibility
>>> teleconference today. Janina, was it?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Laura
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0071.html
>>> [2]
>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/TextAlternativesIssue122
>>> [3]
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0096.html
>>>
>>> On 12/2/10, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
>>> > As determined at the Task Force teleconference on 2 December, we will
>>> > forward the below referenced change proposal to the HTML WG as our
>>> > recommendation this weekend unless a serious, substantive objection is
>>> > raised on list meantime.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If you have such an objection, please reply on list to this email.
>>> >
>>> > Today's minutes,where thic source of action is decided, can be found
>>> > at:
>>> > http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html
>>> >
>>> > Janina Sajka, Co-Facilitator
>>> > HTML-A11Y Task Force
>>> >
>>> > Gregory J. Rosmaita writes:
>>> >> aloha!
>>> >>
>>> >> as documented in:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images
>>> >>
>>> >> in fulfillment of HTML WG Action 195, assigned to me at TPAC 2010:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/195
>>> >>
>>> >> which seeks to close HTML WG Issue 122:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/122
>>> >>
>>> >> here is the change proposal providing replacement text for section
>>> >> 4.8.1.1.7 of HTML5
>>> >>
>>> >> --- BEGIN CHANGE PROPOSAL ---
>>> >>
>>> >> Text Describing Purely Decorative Images in HTML5
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Summary
>>> >>
>>> >> This change proposal addresses ISSUE-122 Lady of Shallott as example
>>> >> of
>>> >> purely decorative image.
>>> >>
>>> >> This change proposal was composed in fulfillment of HTML WG
>>> >> ACTION-195:
>>> >> propose replacement example for lady of shallot example of purely
>>> >> decorative use of image with code example of one of the use cases
>>> >> provided in prose introducing the example
>>> >>
>>> >> Rationale
>>> >>
>>> >> Advice about providing alt text for "purely decorative images, and
>>> >> the
>>> >> definition thereof, should be contained in the HTML5: Techniques for
>>> >> providing useful text alternatives and the Web Content Accessibility
>>> >> Guidelines, version 2.0 (WCAG 2.0).
>>> >>
>>> >> Details
>>> >>
>>> >> Currently, HTML5 section 4.8.1.1.7 states:
>>> >>
>>> >>     4.8.1.1.7 A purely decorative image that doesn't add any
>>> >> information
>>> >>
>>> >>     ISSUE-31 (alt-conformance-requirements) blocks progress to Last
>>> >> Call
>>> >>
>>> >>     In general, if an image is decorative but isn't especially
>>> >>     page-specific, for example an image that forms part of a
>>> >> site-wide
>>> >>     design scheme, the image should be specified in the site's CSS,
>>> >> not
>>> >>     in the markup of the document.
>>> >>
>>> >>     However, a decorative image that isn't discussed by the
>>> >> surrounding
>>> >>     text but still has some relevance can be included in a page using
>>> >>     the img element. Such images are decorative, but still form part
>>> >> of
>>> >>     the content. In these cases, the alt attribute must be present
>>> >> but
>>> >>     its value must be the empty string.
>>> >>
>>> >>     Examples where the image is purely decorative despite being
>>> >> relevant
>>> >>     would include things like a photo of the Black Rock City
>>> >> landscape
>>> >>     in a blog post about an event at Burning Man, or an image of a
>>> >>     painting inspired by a poem, on a page reciting that poem. The
>>> >>     following snippet shows an example of the latter case (only the
>>> >> first
>>> >>     verse is included in this snippet):
>>> >>
>>> >>     <h1>The Lady of Shalott</h1>
>>> >>     <p><img src="shalott.jpeg" alt=""></p>
>>> >>     <p>On either side the river lie<br>
>>> >>     Long fields of barley and of rye,<br>
>>> >>     That clothe the wold and meet the sky;<br>
>>> >>     And through the field the road run by<br>
>>> >>     To many-tower'd Camelot;<br>
>>> >>     And up and down the people go,<br>
>>> >>     Gazing where the lilies blow<br>
>>> >>     Round an island there below,<br>
>>> >>     The island of Shalott.</p>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Replace With
>>> >>
>>> >> 4.8.1.1.7 A purely decorative image that doesn't add any information
>>> >>
>>> >> If an image is decorative but isn't especially page-specific -- for
>>> >> example, an image that forms part of a site-wide design scheme -- the
>>> >> image should be specified in the site's or document's CSS, not in the
>>> >> markup of the document.
>>> >>
>>> >> Exceptions to this rule, in cases where CSS cannot be used to display
>>> >> an entirely decorative image, are covered by the HTML5: Techniques
>>> >> for
>>> >> providing useful text alternatives. [HTML ALT TECHS] Authors are also
>>> >> encouraged to consult the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0
>>> >> for
>>> >> more detailed information and acceptable techniques. [WCAG 2.0]
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Impact
>>> >>
>>> >> Positive Effects
>>> >>
>>> >>     * Provides a single reference for "A purely decorative image that
>>> >>       doesn't add any information" by providing the correct usage
>>> >> guide
>>> >>       for "purely decorative images": define them using CSS;
>>> >>
>>> >>     * Keeps such information in a single reference for developers and
>>> >>       authors;
>>> >>
>>> >> Negative Effects
>>> >>
>>> >>     * none, since advice and guidance on providing appropriate alt
>>> >> text
>>> >>       is already contained in HTML5: Techniques for providing useful
>>> >>       text alternatives [HTML ALT TECHS];
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Conformance Classes Changes
>>> >>
>>> >> none
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Risks
>>> >>
>>> >> none
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> References
>>> >>
>>> >>     * HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives
>>> >>       http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
>>> >>
>>> >>     * Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, version 2.0 (WCAG 2.0)
>>> >>       http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag20
>>> >>
>>> >> --- END CHANGE PROPOSAL ---
>>> >>
>>> >> OPEN QUESTIONS:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. should the first paragraph of the replacement text contain a
>>> >> warning
>>> >> that it is not possible to annotate background images when using CSS?
>>> >>
>>> >> 2. [your question(s) here]
>>> >>
>>> >> gregory.
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of
>>> >> focus.                                           -- Mark Twain
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> Gregory J. Rosmaita: oedipus@hicom.net
>>> >>    Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
>>> >>           Oedipus' Online Complex: http://my.opera.com/oedipus
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
>>> > 		sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>>> >
>>> > Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
>>> > Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org
>>> >
>>> > Chair, Protocols & Formats
>>> > Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
>>> > World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Laura L. Carlson
>>
>> --
>>
>> Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
>> 		sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
>>
>> Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
>> Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org
>>
>> Chair, Protocols & Formats
>> Web Accessibility Initiative	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
>> World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>


-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Wednesday, 8 December 2010 13:33:27 GMT

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