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Re: Minutes: August 5, 2010 HTML Accessibility Task Force

From: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:54:25 -0500
Message-ID: <AANLkTimCY-kD+xaPF_k4ceK26qokVV4mvngiMh7WnYf2@mail.gmail.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Cc: public-html-a11y@w3.org
Hi Rich,

> Here is the IRC. log:

Thank you very much. I linked it to the "Accessibility Task Force
Minutes" Wiki Page

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Meetings/Minutes

Best Regards,
Laura

On 8/16/10, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> not sure how to do that once the minutes are posted. Here is the IRC. log:
>
> IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-08-05
>
>
> Timestamps are in UTC.
>
>
> 14:58:58 [RRSAgent]
>       RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
> 14:58:58 [RRSAgent]
>       logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/05-html-a11y-irc
> 14:59:14 [Stevef]
>       Stevef has joined #html-a11y
> 14:59:36 [janina]
>       zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
> 14:59:36 [Zakim]
>       ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM already started
> 14:59:44 [janina]
>       zakim, call janina
> 14:59:44 [Zakim]
>       ok, janina; the call is being made
> 14:59:46 [Zakim]
>       +Janina
> 15:00:12 [Zakim]
>       +kliehm
> 15:00:22 [Marco_Ranon]
>       Marco_Ranon has joined #html-a11y
> 15:00:49 [Zakim]
>       +Michael_Cooper
> 15:01:00 [Marco_Ranon]
>       hi all. I can't dial in. Zackim UK busy apparently...
> 15:01:29 [MichaelC]
>       regrets: Steven_Faulkner, Denis_Boudreau, Laura_Carlson,
>       Gregory_Rosmaita
> 15:01:37 [MichaelC]
>       agenda:
>       http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0001.html
> 15:02:04 [Zakim]
>       +John_Foliot
> 15:03:00 [JF]
>       JF has joined #html-a11y
> 15:03:07 [Marco_Ranon]
>       I'll be on IRC. Thanks Janina.
> 15:04:05 [Marco_Ranon]
>       Since Zakim UK is a bit temperamental, do you mind if we use Skype
>       and we dial in at 6 or 7 UTC?
> 15:04:40 [Marco_Ranon]
>       I will need to run home just after the call but that's OK.
> 15:05:11 [janina]
>       zakim, who's on the phone?
> 15:05:11 [Zakim]
>       On the phone I see Eric, Janina, kliehm (muted), Michael_Cooper,
>       John_Foliot
> 15:05:21 [Zakim]
>       +Marco_Ranon
> 15:07:50 [Zakim]
>       +??P14
> 15:08:25 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
> 15:09:02 [Ben]
>       Ben has joined #html-a11y
> 15:09:32 [Zakim]
>       +Rich
> 15:09:50 [Zakim]
>       +??P15
> 15:10:04 [jongund]
>       jongund has joined #html-a11y
> 15:10:06 [Ben]
>       zakim, ??P15 is Ben_Caldwell
> 15:10:06 [Zakim]
>       +Ben_Caldwell; got it
> 15:10:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       scribe: Rich
> 15:10:40 [kliehm]
>       s/Since Zakim UK is a bit temperamental, do you mind if we use Skype
>       and we dial in at 6 or 7 UTC?//
> 15:11:11 [Zakim]
>       +Cynthia_Shelly
> 15:11:15 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Topic: Actions Review
> 15:11:23 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       janina: not a lot of people present
> 15:11:47 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       janina: was there a media call yesterday
> 15:12:19 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: just a formal discsussion on time stamp formats.
> 15:12:39 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Topic: Action 28
> 15:12:53 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Action: 47
> 15:12:53 [trackbot]
>       Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
> 15:13:00 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Topic: Action 47
> 15:13:08 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       regrets from both Steve and Gregory
> 15:13:34 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Topic: Keyboard Access Requirements
> 15:13:51 [gfreed]
>       gfreed has joined #html-a11y
> 15:14:04 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       janina: We need UAAG to work with us on this. However, Gregory who is
>       out was supposed to spearhead that for us
> 15:14:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Topic: Drag and Drop
> 15:14:50 [MichaelC]
>       rs: asked PaulC for IE engineers to work on drag 'n drop solution
> 15:14:58 [MichaelC]
>       nothing back yet
> 15:15:08 [MichaelC]
>       cs: has been asking around, just waiting on responses
> 15:15:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       janina: without feedback we cannot move forward
> 15:15:47 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       janina: as it sits drag and drop were modelled on mouse actions but
>       not in a device independent manor. So, we are on hold on this topic
> 15:16:08 [MichaelC]
>       topic: Canvas subteam report
> 15:16:27 [MichaelC]
>       rs: modified proposal to incorporate feedback from James Graham
> 15:16:36 [MichaelC]
>       allow focus ring to use drawing path in canvas
> 15:16:45 [MichaelC]
>       also adjusted caret tracking
> 15:17:16 [MichaelC]
>       caret and focus need to be separate
> 15:17:23 [MichaelC]
>       spent time with Ian on it
> 15:17:32 [MichaelC]
>       he thinks it would be too complex
> 15:17:41 [MichaelC]
>       but people who are working on accessibility will use that
> 15:18:04 [MichaelC]
>       entered 2 bugs related to this
> 15:18:16 [MichaelC]
>       no review yet on changes from James
> 15:18:31 [MichaelC]
>       trying to make sure API would work
> 15:18:39 [MichaelC]
>       tying to a drawing call is problematic
> 15:18:49 [MichaelC]
>       not much more can do until hear back on reviews
> 15:18:55 [MichaelC]
>       the drawing thing will be an issue
> 15:19:06 [MichaelC]
>       next steps?
> 15:19:21 [MichaelC]
>       don't expect a drawing thing soon
> 15:19:31 [davidb]
>       db: (irc only) sorry i haven't been active on the canvas subteam
>       (blame priorities)
> 15:19:34 [MichaelC]
>       don't expect support for a API specific to accessibility
> 15:20:01 [Zakim]
>       +[Microsoft]
> 15:20:11 [MichaelC]
>       js: it's not sufficient to have a canvas element that doesn't meet
>       accessibility
> 15:20:17 [MichaelC]
>       we've created what we know meets the need
> 15:20:28 [MichaelC]
>       so not up to us any more
> 15:20:34 [paulc]
>       paulc has joined #html-a11y
> 15:20:36 [MichaelC]
>       we can try to help them out
> 15:20:49 [MichaelC]
>       zakim, Microsoft if Paul_Cotton
> 15:20:49 [Zakim]
>       I don't understand 'Microsoft if Paul_Cotton', MichaelC
> 15:20:53 [MichaelC]
>       zakim, Microsoft is Paul_Cotton
> 15:20:53 [Zakim]
>       +Paul_Cotton; got it
> 15:21:08 [paulc]
>       zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
> 15:21:08 [Zakim]
>       sorry, paulc, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft]'
> 15:21:12 [MichaelC]
>       jg: no developers stepping up?
> 15:21:36 [MichaelC]
>       does Microsoft natively support canvas, or translate to their own
>       language?
> 15:21:40 [MichaelC]
>       pc: native support
> 15:21:55 [MichaelC]
>       js: we seem to have an impasse
> 15:22:12 [MichaelC]
>       we have an accessibility solution not widely supported
> 15:22:40 [MichaelC]
>       not getting movement on finding a solution that meets everyone
> 15:26:28 [MichaelC]
>       pc: suggest Janina and Paul discuss this issue at HTML chairs meeting
>       next Monday
> 15:27:11 [MichaelC]
>       would be good to have a problem statement in advance for the people
>       not previously in the discussion
> 15:27:28 [MichaelC]
>       js: asks Rich to prepare that
> 15:28:21 [MichaelC]
>       pc: nobody understimates the amount of work that's been done
> 15:28:28 [MichaelC]
>       very helpful to have clear statement of the logjam
> 15:28:39 [MichaelC]
>       topic: ARIA mapping
> 15:29:08 [MichaelC]
>       rs: had a call with Maciej last week
> 15:29:17 [MichaelC]
>       wants us to break up change proposal into specific problem areas
> 15:29:28 [MichaelC]
>       with the original content in section 3.2.6
> 15:29:34 [MichaelC]
>       didn't understand reason for all the changes
> 15:30:05 [MichaelC]
>       there's a whole collection of discrete changes needed
> 15:30:15 [MichaelC]
>       cs: Steve was going to do some changes
> 15:30:25 [MichaelC]
>       not sure if it's to the change proposal or the substance
> 15:30:41 [MichaelC]
>       rs: so moving along fairly well
> 15:30:53 [MichaelC]
>       cs: we should have an ARIA mapping call next week
> 15:32:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Topic: Media
> 15:32:30 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: we have are use cases and are working on technical requirements
> 15:32:44 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: We are grappling with the time line issue
> 15:33:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: What do we do when takes 10 seconds to describe a theme
> 15:33:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: For SVG they went SMIL and made it native to SVG. That is being
>       investigated
> 15:33:54 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: We are grappling with the larger isuue
> 15:34:03 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       s/isuue/issue/
> 15:34:19 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: We want to defer the hard stuff until we get the easy stuff done.
> 15:34:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: This is an incomplete solution
> 15:35:51 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Janina: if you assume all your media matches on the time line then
>       you can't deal with deviations.
> 15:36:08 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Janina: extended is just one case where the time lines might diverge
> 15:36:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Janina: Say you have a half hour video with a lot of dialog and you
>       want the video descriptions in the middle of it
> 15:36:47 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Janina: Do you want two downloads?
> 15:37:21 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       cynthia: Is this a must have
> 15:37:24 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: yes and no
> 15:37:56 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: the concern is that if we don't figure out how to asynchronous
>       timing it will make it difficult to circle back and pick up the
>       straggling end.
> 15:38:26 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: the other problem is that if we spend too much time other items
>       will suffer. we want implementers to try this out
> 15:38:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: It is a big problem
> 15:38:53 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       jongunderson: I noticed that each time a video format comes out we
>       have a new timed text format
> 15:39:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       jongunderson: has a media developer ever adopted someone elses timed
>       text format?
> 15:39:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       jongunderson: Industry does never use a single timed text format
> 15:39:38 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: that is the problem
> 15:39:50 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: we have SRT which is a stripped down file
> 15:40:00 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: it is a simple text file
> 15:40:25 [gfreed]
>       note that DFXP/TTML was supposed to solve the problem not having a
>       single timed-text format for everyone to use.
> 15:40:27 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: some are looking to take this format and extend it
> 15:41:06 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: there is also timed text format. this is in most of the flash
>       players today. TTML is an extremely large spec. It is overengineered
> 15:41:15 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: there are issues with the styling of it
> 15:41:28 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: It is an XML format. then there is the whole XML namespace
>       discussion
> 15:42:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: Silvia Pfypher at mozilla is looking at WWML. The feedback is
>       that because it is XML based is a problem per HTML working group
>       members
> 15:42:30 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: that is the impass
> 15:42:49 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: Again, the asynchronous time line is going to be a vexing
>       problem.
> 15:43:00 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: any solutions will be delayed
> 15:43:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       jongunderson: my only comment is to try and figure out where you are
>       going to make progress. There does not seem to be any force out there
>       that is trying to make it better. The incentives are to do your own.
> 15:44:01 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       jongunderson: the markup in html 5. is it easy to detect if captions
>       are added?
> 15:44:21 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       jongunderson: my question is how to make captions for the file
> 15:44:51 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: there is a proposal in the WhatWG spec for the track element
>       which would be a track of video
> 15:45:06 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: each track would add markup for the video
> 15:45:31 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: you would have tracks for different languages
> 15:45:49 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: it has been on the whiteboard for a while but that seems to be
>       the general direction we are moving in
> 15:45:56 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: there is no formal name for it
> 15:46:17 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       janina: we would rather these be text files vs. binary so that we can
>       style them
> 15:46:37 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       janina: for the majority of the time a supporting track could be a
>       video file with sign language signing
> 15:47:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: we are agnostic as to what the support file in track would be.
>       You need a control time line. this would be the primary media asset
> 15:47:30 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: this is the hardest piece to resolve
> 15:47:40 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: can we advance this to the larger HTML working group
> 15:47:52 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: we need to move on multiple fronts
> 15:48:11 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       jongunderson: the timed text format thing is a tough one
> 15:48:13 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: yes
> 15:48:22 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: that is the hardest thing to resolve
> 15:48:33 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: It may turn religious
> 15:48:53 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: we want the user agent requirements to firmly laid out
> 15:48:58 [Ben]
>       Ben has joined #html-a11y
> 15:49:13 [gfreed]
>       will send a note to the list regarding the text format and possibly
>       aligning it with other formats that are being adopted.
> 15:49:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       JF: it really is going to be the last thing to get resolved. there
>       are no easy answers
> 15:49:30 [gfreed]
>       it will probably complicate the issue further. sorry...
> 15:49:33 [JF]
>       thanks geoff
> 15:50:05 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       michaelC: Marco and I will meet in a couple hours to see how we will
>       work
> 15:50:15 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       michaelC: we will see if they are available
> 15:50:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       michaelC: Laura will join us in a couple weeks
> 15:50:59 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       michaelC: I am hoping it won't be a big time synch. Laura has been
>       submitting reviews for several months
> 15:51:22 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Janina: canvas question
> 15:51:48 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Janina: where are we via Charles' proposal?
> 15:52:26 [MichaelC]
>       rs: The proposal submitted included an allotment for using an <area>
>       map
> 15:52:31 [davidb]
>       s/Silvia Pfypher at mozilla/Silvia Pfeiffer, funded by mozilla,
> 15:52:40 [MichaelC]
>       Charles is away; when he gets back I'll be gone
> 15:53:05 [MichaelC]
>       but at least the space exists for him to plug his work in
> 15:54:21 [Zakim]
>       -Paul_Cotton
> 15:55:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       RRSAgent, make log member
> 15:55:12 [Zakim]
>       -Jon_Gunderson
> 15:55:21 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       RRSAgent: draft minutes
> 15:55:21 [RRSAgent]
>       I have made the request to generate
>       http://www.w3.org/2010/08/05-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
> 15:55:57 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Zakim: bye
> 15:56:06 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       Zakim bye
> 15:56:20 [Zakim]
>       -Cynthia_Shelly
> 15:56:22 [Zakim]
>       -Rich
> 15:56:23 [Zakim]
>       -Janina
> 15:56:23 [Zakim]
>       -Eric
> 15:56:24 [Zakim]
>       -Ben_Caldwell
> 15:56:24 [Zakim]
>       -Michael_Cooper
> 15:56:25 [Zakim]
>       -kliehm
> 15:56:26 [Zakim]
>       -John_Foliot
> 15:56:30 [Zakim]
>       -Marco_Ranon
> 15:56:31 [Zakim]
>       WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
> 15:56:33 [Zakim]
>       Attendees were Eric, Janina, kliehm, Michael_Cooper, John_Foliot,
>       Marco_Ranon, Jon_Gunderson, Rich, Ben_Caldwell, Cynthia_Shelly,
>       Paul_Cotton
> 15:56:49 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       RRSAgent, draft minutes
> 15:56:49 [RRSAgent]
>       I have made the request to generate
>       http://www.w3.org/2010/08/05-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
> 15:58:01 [Ben]
>       Ben has left #html-a11y
> 15:58:11 [janina]
>       janina has left #html-a11y
> 16:21:42 [gfreed]
>       gfreed has left #html-a11y
> 16:32:06 [eric_carlson]
>       eric_carlson has left #html-a11y
> 16:35:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
>       richardschwerdtfe has left #html-a11y
> 17:31:06 [Zakim]
>       Zakim has left #html-a11y
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> CTO Accessibility Software Group
>
>
>
> From:	Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
> To:	Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, public-html-a11y@w3.org
> Date:	08/08/2010 07:47 AM
> Subject:	Re: Minutes: August 5, 2010 HTML Accessibility Task Force
> Sent by:	public-html-a11y-request@w3.org
>
>
>
> I can't access the minutes. I'm getting a "Sorry, Password Required".
>
> Could the minutes please be made public viewable?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> On 8/5/10, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Minutes: August 5, 2010 HTML Accessibility Task Force:
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/2010/08/05-html-a11y-minutes.html
>>
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>> CTO Accessibility Software Group
>
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>
>


-- 
Laura L. Carlson
Received on Monday, 16 August 2010 17:54:58 UTC

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