W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-hcls-coi@w3.org > April to June 2008

Re: Multi-layered Knowledge Representations for Healthcare (was RE: An argument for bridging information models and ontologies at the syntactic level)

From: Dan Russler <dan.russler@oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:02:17 -0400
Message-ID: <4843FD69.1000002@oracle.com>
To: "Kashyap, Vipul" <VKASHYAP1@PARTNERS.ORG>
CC: Samson Tu <swt@stanford.edu>, "Elkin, Peter L., M.D." <Elkin.Peter@mayo.edu>, public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org, public-hcls-coi@w3.org
See below...Dan

Kashyap, Vipul wrote:

>  
>
>     You are correct that classes in HL7 may have sub-classes.
>     [VK] I think the interesting question is whether these classes are
>     metaclasses, i.e., whether they belong to layer 1 or whether they
>     are in layer 2.
>
<dan> Classes and subclasses in a UML model cannot represent "different 
layers" in your layered hierarchy...a subclass in a UML "isa" hierarchy 
"is" the same class as it's parent, it is just constrained by an 
additional set of attributes. />

>      
>      To be more specific, by definition, once a class in HL7 is
>     instantiated, the classCode and the moodCode can never be changed
>     throughout the lifecycle of the instance.
>     [VK] Was wondering if instead of having multiple class codes and
>     mood codes, if it were possible to actually represent them as
>     individual classes?
>     I beliebve the BRIDG model follows this approach.
>
<dan> Correct. There is no semantic difference when representing the 
classCodes and moodCodes as separate classes in UML than with 
"superloading" the current classes with classCode and moodCode 
attributes. The classCode and moodCode attributes in the RIM are simply 
a method for extending the model through vocabulary manipulations. The 
BRIDG model elected to not use classCode and moodCode in the UML for two 
reasons (one most important reason is that the BRIDG is a "pre-RIM 
mapping analysis model" for the domain experts. A later mapping of the 
BRIDG to the RIM for purposes of use in documents, services, and 
messages would collapse the various classes into the appropriate 
moodCodes and classCode representations. />

>      
>      Therefore, operationally, the HL7 RIM ontology is definitively
>     declared when the instance is created.
>     [VK] This is interesting, because typically one first creates
>     ontologies and then instantiates them.
>
<dan> In small domains, that is true. However, in large domains, where 
information models and terminology model techniques are integrated, the 
"small domain" techniques provide huge amounts of ontologic 
combinatorial explosions. />

>      
>      Further granularity in the semantic meaning of the instance is
>     declared in the "code" attribute, which contains a series of
>     fields: Original Text;
>     mapping of orginal text to an expression from a published
>     vocabulary (e.g. SNOMED);
>     [VK] If we view SNOMED as an ontology, this effectively declares
>     that instance to be an instance of the class described by the
>     SNOMED expression.
>
<dan> Correct...The instance must be simultaneously an expression of any 
hierarchies and other associations in SNOMED and of any hierarchies and 
assocations in the HL7 RIM. />

>      
>      The essential rule of Term Info in HL7 is that none of these
>     parts of an "expression" may contradict the other, although each
>     part may contribute to the total semantic meaning of the
>     "expression." It is also important that the semantic meaning of
>     the "class" within its hierarchy in the RIM and the meaning of the
>     published code within its hierarchy in the published coding system
>     not contradict each other. However, much work remains in order to
>     remove contradictions in the hierarchies of all these ontologies
>     when used together.
>     [VK] This is exactly where having a common representational
>     formalism and framework to represent information models and
>     terminologies would be very useful!
>
<dan> Ergo...The Term Info project. Should this group join efforts with 
HL7 TermInfo, since both groups are trying to achieve the same ends? />

>
>
>     (As noted earlier, the RIM is a compromise between the very
>     abstract, raw, models like ASN.1 or EAV and the more concrete
>     models often found in database schemas for a narrow domain.)
>     [VK] This sort of validates my opinion that it is more of a
>     meta-model, i.e., it belongs to Layer 1.
>
<dan> Correct. The RIM in your model belongs in Layer 1 and the domain 
specific, derived models from the RIM, e.g. Clinical Statement Pattern, 
implementable RMIM, CDA,, service models, belong in your Layer 2. />

>
>
>     What are called Archetypes in OpenEHR correspond to HL7 structures
>     called Care Structures in HL7 Patient Care. These "Care
>     Structures" represent aggregations of classes used to represent a
>     medical record construct such as a problem list or care plan. Care
>     Structures typical provide the "context" to very granular
>     concepts. For example, by itself, the term "diabetes Type 2" is
>     merely a concept. Once diabetes is placed within a problem list
>     care structure for a specific patient, the "sense" of  what is
>     meant by "diabetes Type 2" in a particular assertion of the term
>     is more clear.
>     [VK] Would be interested in undertanding the semantics underlying
>     the "Care Structure"? Maybe one could model specific classes for a
>     Problem and a Care Plan and may be Diabetes Type 2 can be a
>     subclass or an instance of the Problem MetaClass or Class. Just
>     throwing out some alternate modeling approaches ...  Would like to
>     know the fallacies if any.
>
<dan> When the SNOMED code for diabetes is used in the Observation class 
in the RIM, one is creating an instance of the combined relationships 
found in the RIM and in SNOMED. You aren't really adding any new 
modeling approaches here. />

>
>
>     In HL7 templated CDA documents (like CCD), templates are used to
>     bind to a schematron conformance test that validates that a
>     certain XML Care Structures (again, aggreations of classes,
>     attributes, and vocabulary) do not extend beyond a specific set of
>     allowable constraints. Therefore, templates don't really add to
>     semantic meaning. However, the do enforce semantic meaning, and
>     therefore support improved interoperability.
>     [VK] Agree CDA documents do not add to the semantics. We are more
>     interested in the information model or R-MIM underlying the CDA.
>
<dan> you missed the point that templateID is part of the RMIM of the 
CDA. The templates are used to enforce the combined information model 
and terminology models conformance statements. />

>
>
>     I hope this long-winded description helps in this "multi-layered
>     Knowledge Representation" discussion. How one classifies the
>     concept of "context" for a given concept, or the concept of
>     "conformance testing the constraints on an aggregation of
>     structure and vocabulary" in a multi-layer Knowledge
>     Representation is not clear to me.
>
>     [VK] Some thoghts on this are as follows:
>     - A context can be typically represented as a MetaClass or a Class.
>
<dan> Context for an instance of a class is represented by all the many 
class associations that exist for an individual class instance. 
Computationally, in an EHR, the context extends to anything previously 
recorded in the EHR as well as all the associations to references 
outside of the EHR, e.g. knowledge links to country information, 
terminology information, basic science information, facility 
information, etc. Don't think too small on context! />

>     - A given concept can be a class which can be represented as an
>     instance or a sublcass of the context or associated with a context
>     through well defined
>       semantic relationships
>     - Can you present a concrete definition of conformance? I am
>     assuming for the purposes of this discussion Conformance =
>     Semantic Subsumption.
>       Assuming that we have represented concepts and aggregation
>     structures in a common formalism, conformance would correspond to
>     checking
>       for subsumption.
>
<dan> There are many kinds of "conformance." One basic example is 
testing the contents of a data entry field before committing the 
contents to the database to make sure the contents have the right kinds 
of characters, e.g. numeric, alphabetic, etc. Schematron testing in CDA 
tests the conformance of the XML structure and the codes and other 
values within the XML structure (think terminology) to make sure the 
wrong codes aren't used in a specific XML structure. I'm sure that a 
broader definition of conformance can be created that includes things as 
basic as character validation and as complex as information 
model/vocabulary model validation. />

>      
>     Obviously this needs to be further fleshed out and the best thing
>     would be to take a concrete example and work through the various
>     issues you have raised.
>      
>     Look forward to feedback.
>      
>     Thanks,
>      
>     ---Vipul
>
>The information transmitted in this electronic communication is intended only
>for the person or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential
>and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other
>use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or
>entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this
>information in error, please contact the Compliance HelpLine at 800-856-1983 and
>properly dispose of this information.
>
>
>  
>
Received on Monday, 2 June 2008 14:06:54 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 2 June 2008 14:06:55 GMT