W3C

GRDDL WG Weekly

1 Aug 2007

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
john-l, DanC, HarryH, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Simone, FabienG, danja, jjc,
Regrets
DavidB
Chair
HarryH
Scribe
DanC

Contents


Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-08-01T11:00-0400

<scribe> scribe: DanC

PROPOSED: to accept http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-grddl-wg-minutes.html as a true record

<HarryH> I'm going to dial back in

scribe volunteer for 8 Aug?

john-l: I volunteer to scribe 8 Aug

RESOLUTION: to accept http://www.w3.org/2007/07/18-grddl-wg-minutes.html as a true record

RESOLUTION: to meet again 8 Aug, john-l to scribe

Standard Library Transform

<scribe> ACTION: jjc to organize library tests; link from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/library [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

<scribe> ACTION: jjc to dispose of @@s in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/library (and in docs of 3 txforms) [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

Comments on connections to XML Schemas

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JulSep/0041.html

HH: comments from the schema WG show surprise/confusion that we require schemas at the namespace document... discussion of whether schemas from other parties are 3rd-party info or a faithful rendition

<DanC_> XQuery/XSL WGs agree to changes proposed by Harry

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Aug/0007.html

HH: changes start with [For example, ...

<chimezie> I don't understand those changes

chimezie: "Furthermore, in addition to being GRDDL-aware, an agent may feature optional capabilities such as allowing a schema and an associated transformation" doesnt' make sense to me...
... is the "associated transformations" a GRDDL mechanism?

HH: consider a schema with a transformation link, where the GRDDL-aware agent finds the schema by way of a parameter
... so the result is not a faithful rendition

JJC: I like the way the text separates what an agent could do from the GRDDL part...
... for example, my code might do RDFa at user option, regardless of GRDDL mechanisms
... or I might support "Read this document with this schema"

DanC: I'd prefer not to mention anything beyond GRDDL, but I can live with what's there, given "in addition to being GRDDL-aware..."

Chime: why not talk about random other features... rendering SVG?

DanC: because reviewers haven't asked ---

JJC: and because those other features are not small code changes

<chimezie> i have specific text suggestion as an alternative

danja: re "may not be a faithful rendition" ... hmm... maybe "may or may not..."

DanC: that change doesn't seem worth another round-trip thru the XQuery WG

<chimezie> [[

<chimezie> Furthermore, in addition to being GRDDL-aware, an agent may feature optional capabilities such as

<chimezie> locating a schema via mechanisms defined in the W3C XML Schema specification [XMLSCHEMA]. Schemas identified

<chimezie> this way can become proxies for namespace documents that would normally be identified by GRDDL [#ns-bind] and the results of applying such a transformation may not be a faithful rendition.]

<chimezie> ]]

<danja> if there's a noticeable cost to cycling this through the the xsl wg, the current wording seems good enough

jjc: this clarifies "and an associated transformation"?

chime: yes

<jjc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JulSep/0028

<jjc> [[

<jjc> Are the results still going to be a

<jjc> Faithful Rendition of the original XML document? If the GRDDL-aware

<jjc> agent is permitted to apply transformations that the GRDDL spec cannot

<jjc> ensure were endorsed by the XML document author, then the GRDDL spec

<jjc> cannot ensure that the RDF results do represent a Faithful Rendition.

<jjc> ]]

HH: note I added "... XSLT 1.0" to test notes

<scribe> ACTION: chimezie to choose some text based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JulSep/0041.html , updated editors draft, and notify the commentors (XQuery WG) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

Community Survey, Quick Reference (GRDDL Outreach)

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] danja and john-l to test and see if any XSLT is mature enough to add to ATOM namespace doc and has proper licensing (W3C Software license), as well as canvass all candidate XSLT authors for their opinion on ATOM/RSS 1.0 namespace. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jul/0050.html

<HarryH> Bootstrapping the Semantic Web through XML and Microformats via GRDDL: Next Steps

<DanC_> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/39407/GRDDLMICRO/results

<DanC_> (oops; I split the agenda too much)

HH: how to make it so anybody can answer, Dan?

DanC: write to sysreq or webreq, copy me. somebody will do some SQL magic
... perhaps sync with Ivan Herman

<scribe> ACTION: HarryH to make Questionnaire as regards microformat XSLTs and e-mail swig list. [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to ask W3C Sysadmins to make survey world-usable, co-ordinating with Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

W3C GRDDL Service

DanC: yes... "Link to GRDDL from HTML and RDF validators?" is an idea from way back... not sure I have energy these days...

Harry: who is responsible for the W3C RDF validation service? a WG?
... the W3C systems team?

DanC: yes, systems team... the buck tends to not stop anywhere in particular, though. jjc is quite influential

jjc: I tend to push web issues toward EricP, and just do RDF related stuff

DanC: Olivier T. is influential in the HTML validation service

HarryH: how does a WG ask for staff time?
... the CG?

DanC: yes, the CG, Ivan H. as activity lead... and yes, the w3c comm team is relevant

<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to e-mail about updating HTML and RDF to work with a properly working GRDDL Service in concert with Press Release. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

Dublin Core, Microformat Profiles (GRDDL Outreach)

<danja> mail re. DC has gone to list (twice)

danja: some progress on my action...

<scribe> ACTION: IanD and Danja to e-mail maintainer of Dublin Core Metadata Profile to upgrade to GRDDL. [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

danja: there isn't an agreed mapping to the new DC model

DanC: there's an existing DCMI REC, with examples; I used those examples as test cases and implemented a transformation [and told them so]... if they're not willing to support that because they're playing with new designs, I'm disappointed.

HH: did they have some particular issue with Dan's transformation?

danja: there's no mention of it in this exchange

(oops; I haven't cited my work from http://esw.w3.org/topic/CustomRdfDialects )

danja: I'm ok with following up on the request to install Dan's transformation

http://www.w3.org/2000/06/dc-extract/dc-extract.xsl

<HarryH> ACTION: Danja to e-mail DC back mentioning that DanC has already made transformation to a stable version of their spec, and mention that it would be great to mention RDF and Dublin Core in press release for GRDDL. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

<DanC_> (I'm looking for a message where I specifically pointed out the test-driven work I did on dc-extract.xsl , using examples in their spec as test cases)

Relationship to XHTML 2 and HTML 5: head/@profile at risk

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jul/0044.html

<HarryH> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xhtml2-20060726/mod-metaAttributes.html#adef_metaAttributes_rel

HH: a member of the XHTML 2 WG responded regarding head/@profile, saying the functionality has a different syntax now

<myakura> please note that message was my personal thought.

<myakura> xhtml2 wg has that issue on our tc agenda, but hasn't talked about that yet.

HH: I think they should also support the head/@profile syntax

chime: hmm... so do I... I wonder about tactics...

DanC: the way to get a change to the XHTML 2 spec is to write a comment to their comments list

<HarryH> ACTION: Chime to comment to XHTML2 comment list about preserving head/@profile re GRDDL and backwards-compatibility. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

Press Release

ah... good to know, myakura

HarryH: I wrote to Dave Beckett and Ryan king; no response so far

<myakura> (we were supposed to talke about that at today's tc, which was unfortunately postponed.)

discussion of testamonials in progress in some member orgs...

<scribe> ACTION: HarryH to ask David Beckett to ask AC rep to a testimonial. [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

<scribe> ACTION: HarryH to ask RyanKing for Testimonial about microformats and GRDDL [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

<scribe> ACTION: rreck to ask Ken and Encyl. Brit. for testimonials [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]

<HarryH> Adjourn Meeting

GRDDL schedule, in retrospect (postscript)

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Aug/0010.html

DanC: SW client lib supports GRDDL+SPARQL; we could say a bit about that in the implementation report.

<danja> SW Client Lib. algorithm: http://sites.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/suhl/bizer/ng4j/semwebclient/#how

<DanC_> tx for pointer, danja

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Chime to comment to XHTML2 comment list about preserving head/@profile re GRDDL and backwards-compatibility. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: chimezie to choose some text based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JulSep/0041.html , updated editors draft, and notify the commentors (XQuery WG) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: Danja to e-mail DC back mentioning that DanC has already made transformation to a stable version of their spec, and mention that it would be great to mention RDF and Dublin Core in press release for GRDDL. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: HarryH to ask W3C Sysadmins to make survey world-usable, co-ordinating with Ivan. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[NEW] ACTION: HarryH to e-mail about updating HTML and RDF to work with a properly working GRDDL Service in concert with Press Release. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: danja and john-l to test and see if any XSLT is mature enough to add to ATOM namespace doc and has proper licensing (W3C Software license), as well as canvass all candidate XSLT authors for their opinion on ATOM/RSS 1.0 namespace. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: jjc to dispose of @@s in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/library (and in docs of 3 txforms) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: jjc to organize library tests; link from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/library [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[PENDING] ACTION: rreck to ask Ken and Encyl. Brit. for testimonials [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
 
[DONE] ACTION: HarryH to ask David Beckett to ask AC rep to a testimonial. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[DONE] ACTION: HarryH to ask RyanKing for Testimonial about microformats and GRDDL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[DONE] ACTION: HarryH to make Questionnaire as regards microformat XSLTs and e-mail swig list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
[DONE] ACTION: IanD and Danja to e-mail maintainer of Dublin Core Metadata Profile to upgrade to GRDDL. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/01-grddl-wg-irc]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.128 (CVS log)
$Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 $