W3C

GRDDL Weekly

20 Dec 2006

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, briansuda, HarryH, benadida, Murray_Maloney
Regrets
danja
Chair
HarryH
Scribe
briansuda

Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-12-06T11:00-0500

<DanC> agenda points to http://www.w3.org/2006/12/13-grddl-wg-minutes.html

Test cases for GRDDL with XML documents

Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2006-12-06T11:00-0500

<HarryH> RESOLVED to approve http://www.w3.org/2006/12/13-grddl-wg-minutes.html as a true record

Test cases for GRDDL with XML documents

<HarryH> ACTION: Fabien to post to sawsdl list relevant questions about RDF mapping and relationship to GRDDL [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<chimezie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/POMROntology

Chime: xml primer example use-case, lightweight ontology for medical records

<chimezie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HCLS/POMROntology#head-b91a931fb7855e7073e795b75ca71b550ed1e4c3

<HarryH> This would fulfill Dave Booth's request in our comments list: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2006OctDec/0000.html

Chime: GRDDL transform, HL7 document -> RDF

Dan: how to fit GRDDL transformation into the document without breaking the schema?

<HarryH> namespace document is a URN, which is a slight problem.

Chime: schema might be closed.

Chime: But we could use schema annotations, don't think schema is closed to import infoitems from other namespaces.

Harry: plain XML would be a nice addition to the primer
... ian is ok with additions to the primer document

Dan: check it into the test suite

<HarryH> ACTION: Chime's add HL7 plain XML health care use-case and check it into test suite. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]

[#issue-output-formats] [DONE?] whether GRDDL transformations may produce RDF in a format other than RDF/XML

<HarryH> ACTION: DanC to add N3/turtle mime type to Atom/turtle test case. noting the unregistered status [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]

<HarryH> ACTION:DanC to write rules about XSLT 1.0 processing [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action04]

Ben: in RDFa html metadata by providing transforms, microformats -> RDFa

keeps the RDFa in the DOM, so you can grab individual items

use GRDDL like mechanism to make RDFA

can this be done with the current GRDDL spec?

<chimezie> we could test this with the current test suite impl..

Ben: output-issue might solve this problem
... requires clients to request RDFa output of given profile

<HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#issue-output-formats is technically still open.

Dan: GRDDL transformation pointer, source document => HTML/RDFa

Ben: author must use specific profile to make a transformation to RDFa

<chimezie> the agent/client needs some way to know how to parse as RDFa

Ben: how would the client know what transformation to use? RDF, turtle or HTML?

Harry: browser would decipher the transformation and look for RDFa results

murray: GRDDL tells us how to find 1 or more transformations

agent is RDFa aware and GRDDL aware

agent is able to look into class attributes, link element has special @class

chime: RDFa, does it have a specific mimeType?

Ben: no special mimeType - schema or DTD instead
... DTD mostly - murray's direction is a good one

find the RDFa transformation, can be done with various javascript libs

murray: to identify a grddl transformation can be in a LINK element

Dan: hCard page, profile="hcard uri here", this works for GRDDL transform

Murray: namespace transformation keyword, profile transformation keywork... HTML profile document could have link element with special class name for RDFa URI

RDFa aware user agant can follow its nose and find the correct LINK/REL uri and do correct transformation

<chimezie> that's a very specific follow your nose scenario

Dan: worries about choosing a good class attribute

<DanC> (I'm worried about squatting on the author's choice of class attribute values)

Harrry: run all transformation, user agent chooses the right output it wants

murray: try not to complicate GRDDL by using existing attributes in HTML namespace

Harry: mimeType for HTML RDFa not part of GRDDL

Ben: differenciate between transforms and/or type the transforms

Dan: run the transform and see what you get instead of typing

Ben: annotate transformation or not?

<HarryH> Annotate the transformation pre-running it

murray: leave it up to the agents to discover the annotation

Dan: GRDDL spec says all are relevant, but if you only want to run certain ones, go ahead

<DanC> (ben, as fodder for hGRDDL testing, there's an existing hCard test: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist2#hcard1 )

<HarryH> ACTION: BenA to write a sample hGRDDL transformation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action05]

<DanC> (yes, output formats is closed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/att-0011/06-grddl-wg-minutes.html__charset_us-ascii )

<DanC> (though there are some pending actions)

murray: RDFa, transformation that converts to 'augments HTML RDFa with notations'

wouldn't you want ALL the RDF to annotate ALL of it back into HTML?

Ben: this could be done by keeping other GRDDL pointers

Dan: not all the transformation tell you where an RDF triple belongs back into the HTML

GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML

Cross-document Introduction

harry: pending edit, to remove the words "scrapping"

<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to make sure edit "scraping" edit is. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]

GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML

Cross-document Introduction

Harry: what do do about this without Ian?

Dan: spec pretty much remains the same, otherwise the primer doesn't get the introduction

Murray: happy to withdraw the cross-document intro

<HarryH> ACTION: Ian to reconsider comments on cross-document introduction [WITHDRAWN] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]

[#issue-mt-ns]

murray: given a doc with a DTD or schema or xinclude....

<DanC> (the HTML DTD has a default 'rect' attribute)

murray: xinclude agumnets document if it is realized

XSLT may or maynot be all of the values if it were xinclude processed

might return two different RDF graphs given if or if not the includes are included

people have to deal with it themselves, or

MUST do things so you get what the author intended

with XI namespace

transformation in xi namespace, so that xinclude were incountered - discover it, and add something into result

<HarryH> I think there's a problem the xi namespace is not usually the root element.

<DanC> Subject: XInclude or Not, that is the question

<DanC> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:24:30 -0500 (11:24 CST)

murray: authors intention to get with xinclude expanded

xinclude namespace is in the document

not in the same namespace, follow you nose for the subtree?

Dan: different GRDDL design

murray: not xi namespace, but explain

simple transform which you can include and make the result graph aware that you missed an xinclude

Dan: if you want you transformation to do xinclude, then make your transformations do xinclude

harry: not mandate any further xml processing, but instead make recommendations

murray: if we add a paragraph, about issues and problems

in the spec

Chime: we currently recomment xproc

<DanC> +1 The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document is wanted to be run before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC or using (or something like Murray's xinclude transformation) when this is the case.

<DanC> hmm... faithful-infoset

<HarryH> PROPOSAL: The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC when this is the case.

harry: what exactly is the mimetype issue now?

<DanC> PROPOSED: to add issue faithful-infoset (split it out of issue-mt-ns) and close it a la: The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC when this is the case.

<benadida> not me, but I'm comfortable abstaining

<DanC> brian, you'd rather think more? you'd rather abstain?

<briansuda> abstain

<DanC> "

<DanC> I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but that rather than us

<DanC> trying to give a definitive answer on xinclude processing, we could

<DanC> leave it to the publisher. " -- McBride

<DanC> Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:16:51 -0000

<HarryH> RESOLVED: to add issue faithful-infoset (split it out of issue-mt-ns) and close it a la: The GRDDL WG does not mandate XInclude and further XML processing on the source document before the transformation to RDF, and write a caveat in the specification recommending XPROC when this is the case. (benA and BrianS abstaining)

<HarryH> ACTION: Murry to draft paragraph giving us caveat for faithful infoset issue closure. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]

GRDDL and (non-XML) HTML

[#issue-base-param]

<HarryH> PROPOSAL: Given that a base URI parameter is a parameter whose value is the base URI of the source document, the WG RESOLVES not to define a base URI parameter for transforms.

Dan: is ok, and results in no edits to spec

eRDF uses base-construct

harry: can't change base-parameter
... defining default para

<HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist1#baseURI

<HarryH> RESOLVED: Given that a base URI parameter is a parameter whose value is the base URI of the source document, the WG RESOLVES not to define a base URI parameter for transforms.

<DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/0028.html

<HarryH> ACTION: Harry to check in Bwm's test case: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/0028.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action09]

Primer Document

<HarryH> BrianS - are you available in 2 hours or so?

sure

<HarryH> OK, let's try to finish some of this off then :)

<HarryH> ACTION: Harry and Brian to rewrite second part of primer to use Brian and Dan's instance data. See message from Brian and message from Harry. [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action10]

GRDDL Spec: General issues

<DanC> (hmm... when to do another release of the GRDDL primer WD?)

harry: next meeting will be...

Next Meeting

<DanC> RESOLVED: to cancel 27 Dec

<DanC> anybody _want_ to meet on 3 Jan?

<HarryH> Does anyone want to meet on 3rd?

<DanC> RESOLVED: to cancel 3 Jan

<HarryH> Next meeting: Janurary 10th

<DanC> RESOLVED: to meet next 10 Jan, benadida to scribe

<DanC> ADJOURN

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: BenA to write a sample hGRDDL transformation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Chime's add HL7 plain XML health care use-case and check it into test suite. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Harry to check in Bwm's test case: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2006Dec/0028.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: HarryH to make sure edit "scraping" edit is. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Murry to draft paragraph giving us caveat for faithful infoset issue closure. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to add N3/turtle mime type to Atom/turtle test case. noting the unregistered status [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: DanC to write rules about XSLT 1.0 processing [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Fabien to post to sawsdl list relevant questions about RDF mapping and relationship to GRDDL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Harry and Brian to rewrite second part of primer to use Brian and Dan's instance data. See message from Brian and message from Harry. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action10]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: Ian to reconsider comments on cross-document introduction [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/20-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.127 (CVS log)
$Date: 2006/12/20 17:18:06 $