W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-geolocation@w3.org > April 2009

RE: renaming enableHighAccuracy

From: Thomson, Martin <Martin.Thomson@andrew.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:21:22 -0500
Message-ID: <E51D5B15BFDEFD448F90BDD17D41CFF105968675@AHQEX1.andrew.com>
To: "Allan Thomson (althomso)" <althomso@cisco.com>, "Andrei Popescu" <andreip@google.com>
Cc: Angel Machín <angel.machin@gmail.com>, "public-geolocation" <public-geolocation@w3.org>
I've said it before...

It seems like Apple have the right level of abstraction.  Specify what result you are looking for and let the device manage the details.  CLLocationAccuracy is a double, in metres.  No need for any secret understanding of what distinguishes 'true' from 'false'.  Just a nice, clear, easy to understand semantic defined in terms that can easily be related to the application.

http://developer.apple.com/iPhone/library/documentation/CoreLocation/Reference/CLLocation_Class/CLLocation/CLLocation.html#//apple_ref/doc/c_ref/CLLocationAccuracy


> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-geolocation-request@w3.org [mailto:public-geolocation-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Allan Thomson (althomso)
> Sent: Friday, 3 April 2009 2:51 PM
> To: Andrei Popescu
> Cc: Angel Machín; public-geolocation
> Subject: RE: renaming enableHighAccuracy
> 
> 
> Andrei - see my responses below within <at>   </at>
> 
> If there is a group desire to keep the attribute then maybe we can
> define the attribute in a way that allows the device "intelligence" to
> switch between low|high power modes without having to have that
> intelligence in the application. If we did that, that might satisfy my
> concern.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Allan
> 
> >> Here are a couple of examples:
> 
> - You are developing a gadget application that lives on the desktop of
> a mobile device. This means it is most likely running all the time.
> Your app is showing POI in the user's vicinity / offers search results
> relevant to the user's location / shows where the user's friends are /
> etc. Since the application is long running (it's on the desktop),
> would you say it is reasonable for a developer to set lowPower to
> true?
> 
> <at> At what point does the developer of the application switch to
> lowPower? An application has no way of knowing how much longer the
> application will run. So presumably the application will determine that
> after X time of running that it should revert to lower power. However,
> when reverting to that lower power the location accuracy will
> potentially change from good accuracy to less than good accuracy and
> the user has no way of understanding why it changed. The application
> would presumably have to provide a means for the user to switch back to
> higher power again.
> </at>
> 
> - You are developing some app that offers turn-by-turn directions.
> That is a user-driven action that clearly requires accurate position
> fixes, so would you say it is reasonable to use the default values of
> the API?
> 
> <at> Agreed. But what happens if the user stops in the middle of the
> route and has a coffee for 1 hour. Does the application keep running at
> high power? My point is that without intelligence to know when to stop
> running in high power vs low power the application would just keep
> running as is.
> 
> One solution to this could be if the device has a motion sensor
> attached then it could determine that the device is not moving so stop
> location determination until it detects movement again. That way the
> device intelligently decides what is good for location and what is good
> for power consumption on the device. No need for an application to tell
> it.
> 
> Also what happens when the user enters a building and WLAN location can
> be provided much more easily than say GPS location (which doesn't work
> inside as well)? Does the application now know that low power isn't
> needed cause the location is now being provided by a lower powered
> option? Any the underlying drivers on the device can determine that
> change and automatically switch whereas the application would have to
> have that logic built into it.
> </at>
> 
> In general, if you don't care about this issue or you want the best
> results you can get, you can just use the API with its defaults
> values. For those cases where you think the usage of this API may be
> detrimental to the user experience (e.g. by draining a phone's battery
> and preventing the user from making phone calls), I feel that this
> attribute may be useful.
> 
> <at> My point is that the attribute can't be set by applications that
> don't understand all of the parameters that affect power consumption of
> location. Applications don't have that visibility but you are asking
> them to set this parameter. That is my objection.
> </at>
> 
> Finally, let's have a look at what other Location APIs do:
> 
> IPhone:
> http://developer.apple.com/iPhone/library/documentation/CoreLocation/Re

> ference/CLLocationManager_Class/CLLocationManager/CLLocationManager.htm
> l#//apple_ref/occ/instm/CLLocationManager/startUpdatingLocation
> 
> That method takes a desiredAccuracy attribute: "The desired accuracy
> of the location data. (...) You should assign a value to this property
> that is appropriate for your usage scenario. In other words, if you
> need only the current location within a few kilometers, you should not
> specify kCLLocationAccuracyBest for the accuracy. Determining a
> location with greater accuracy requires more time and more power".
> Note the word "power" at the end.
> 
> <at> The statement on greater accuracy requires more time and more
> power is just misleading for certain location determination techniques.
> For GPS or Assisted GPS this might be true but it's not true of other
> techniques like WLAN location determination. If the application
> actually knew a WLAN technique was available then they could still get
> good accuracy without consuming a lot of power.
> </at>
> 
> <snip>
> 
> (FYI, also have a look at
> http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/KIJ000875_-

> _GPS_Satellite_fix_results_in_reduced_battery_life
> to see the impact of GPS on a modern device)
> 
> <at> And that is why GPS is not necessarily the right location
> determination technique in all environments.
> </at>
> 
> I understand extremely well that we're designing a much higher-level
> API than any of the above, but I think having a simple boolean
> attribute offers quite a bit of value with very little cost. But ok,
> if the majority of the people disagree, we'll take it out. But before
> that, can you please summarize the main reasons why you don't want
> this in the API (perhaps other than "devices will get better in XYZ
> years") ?
> 
> <at> My primary objection is that applications will not necessarily
> know when to set the attribute to one value or another. And if they do
> set the attribute, they don't have the intelligence to change the value
> if the RF environment changes dynamically. Hence optimal performance of
> a location application is not achieved because when the application
> sets the attribute to low power the user experience may not get the
> best location possible for the deployment environment.
> </at>
> 
> 

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[mf2]
Received on Friday, 3 April 2009 04:22:06 GMT

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