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RE: [Filter Effects][css3-transforms] Using MathML for formulas

From: Paul Topping <pault@dessci.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:29:55 -0700
Message-ID: <8F5CC1B027A79E4EB4DB2154060CF6380128F967@DRAKE.corp.dessci>
To: "Dirk Schulze" <dschulze@adobe.com>
Cc: "Rik Cabanier" <cabanier@gmail.com>, <public-fx@w3.org>
I'm confused. What script and demo site are you referring to? What does
the popup say?

MathJax is very configurable, by the way. I understand about your
reluctance to having a W3C spec require JavaScript but, IMHO, one can't
do much on the web these days without JS enabled. How many people really
run with JS disabled these days anyway? 

Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dirk Schulze [mailto:dschulze@adobe.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:23 PM
> To: Paul Topping
> Cc: Rik Cabanier; public-fx@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [Filter Effects][css3-transforms] Using MathML for
> formulas
> 
> 
> On Apr 23, 2012, at 2:04 PM, Paul Topping wrote:
> 
> > Screen readers work with MathPlayer, the IE plugin that my company
> gives
> > away for free. (I could not tell you which ones and which versions
> > work.) If MathPlayer is installed, IE uses it to display MathML and
> > screen readers use it to turn math into text to be spoken. If the
> page
> > uses MathJax, and MathJax detects IE+MathPlayer, it defers to
> MathPlayer
> > to display the math and screen readers will work fine on the math.
> 
> I know MathPlayer. I just checked MathJax on IE. The problem is that
> the script suggest that the MathPlayer plugin is needed to display the
> formulas on the demo site, even if that is obviously not the case! As
> much as I like MathPlayer and the output of MathJax, this behavior
> seems not to be applicable for a specification of the W3C. It is
> strange that I didn't get a popup on the main page of the project on
> the first load. So it looks like this popup can be blocked (without
> changes to the code itself)?
> 
> Greetings,
> Dirk
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Dirk Schulze [mailto:dschulze@adobe.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:54 PM
> >> To: Paul Topping
> >> Cc: Rik Cabanier; public-fx@w3.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Filter Effects][css3-transforms] Using MathML for
> >> formulas
> >>
> >> I would like to know more about MathJax before I come to a
> conclusion
> >> for my self. MathJax is a Javascript library. Content in
> > specifications
> >> should not rely on JS at all in my eyes.
> >>
> >> But if I understood it correctly, than you can add formulas in pure
> >> MathML and the library would take care about the rendering? It
would
> >> still mean that you cannot read the specification on disabled
> >> JavaScript and missing MathML support.
> >>
> >> Is there a benefit to the idea of Aryeh to use CSS and check for
the
> >> MathML namespace? My priority is the accessibility. If we can use
> pure
> >> MathML, the specs might be more accessible. The problem with
Aryeh's
> >> solution is, that current screenreader don't inspect elements which
> > are
> >> not displayed on the screen (e.g display:none). Therefore, on IE
the
> >> MathML code wouldn't be accessible for screen reader users since
the
> >> code does not get displayed. Would that be different with MathJax?
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >> Dirk
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 23, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Paul Topping wrote:
> >>
> >>> It is not as fast as if MathML were supported directly in the
> > browser
> >> but JavaScript performance is getting faster all the time. It also
> >> depends a lot on what browser you are talking about and what
device.
> > It
> >> is very fast in IE with MathPlayer installed as it defers to
> > MathPlayer
> >> to draw the MathML. It is much slower on an iPhone, for example.
> Best
> >> thing to do is try it on a sample page. There are also links to
> other
> >> sites that use MathJax listed on the MathJax site. You might find
> some
> >> analogous content.
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>> From: Rik Cabanier [mailto:cabanier@gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:26 PM
> >>> To: Paul Topping
> >>> Cc: public-fx@w3.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [Filter Effects][css3-transforms] Using MathML for
> >> formulas
> >>>
> >>> This is great! Thanks for pointing this out.
> >>> Do you know if the performance is good? Some spec pages are quite
> >> long and I think mathjax has to process all the text.
> >>>
> >>> Rik
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Paul Topping <pault@dessci.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> You may be interested in the MathJax project (www.mathjax.org). It
> > is
> >> an
> >>> open source JavaScript engine for displaying MathML and LaTeX
> >> equations
> >>> in all modern web browsers and ebook readers. It essentially fills
> >> the
> >>> gaps in browser support of MathML.
> >>>
> >>> Paul Topping
> >>> Design Science, Inc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >
Received on Monday, 23 April 2012 21:30:25 GMT

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