John Boyer, IBM
Leigh Klotz, Xerox (minutes)
Nick van den Bleeken, Inventive Designers
Philip Fennell, MarkLogic
Steven Pemberton, CWI/W3C (chair)
Charlie Wiecha, IBM
Alain Couthures, AgenceXML
Uli Lissé, DreamLabs
xforms-out-of-rangeLeigh Klotz: They're using WADL,
XML, REST, JSON, etc. This is part of the data.gov initiative. It
might be useful for doing some examples.
Steven Pemberton: I switched over to
caldev for calendars. We don't yet support that format, like vCard.
Perhaps we should consider that as well.
Leigh Klotz: I wonder if this might be
Kurt Cagle as well.
Steven Pemberton: Now is the time to register. There will be 2 or 3 there and the rest on the phone, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. TPAC day is Wednesday.
John Boyer: I reported that I've started the wiki page for 1.1 errata. I've written up two of the errata, using the diff-marked wiki language. http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_1.1_First_Edition_Errata
Steven Pemberton: I have put XForms
1.1 into the wiki. It's not perfect. The internal links aren't
working. It looks quite good.
John Boyer: And the other
direction?
Steven Pemberton: Yes, I have the
Python files, written by someone else. They're free with no
support. I'm working on it now.
Charlie Wiecha: HTML or SpecXML?
Steven Pemberton: The code produces
HTML but it seems not hard to produce SpecXML once we get that
working.
John Boyer: There are a couple of
blank examples, but it looks fantastic.
Nick van: How about the diff
marking.
Steven Pemberton: That's the next
step. We could produce diffs from specxml. Shane has a program that
does that.
John Boyer: SpecXML has diff.
Steven Pemberton: I'm deeply impressed
that you've done that by hand, but it's a pain and error-ridden, so
automating it would be a good process.
Charlie Wiecha: Doesn't the wiki have
a layering delta mechanism.
Steven Pemberton: You can see the
changes. That might be enough, to collect two versions and compare
them. It's not beautiful though.
Charlie Wiecha: That could be the
input to Shane's comparison.
Steven Pemberton: I think Shane's
comparison takes two HTML things and does a smart diff, though I
don't know how.
Leigh Klotz: So we don't lose any data
by not diff-marking, as it's non-normalized data, an the wiki diffs
give us the interim results.
John Boyer: There are a couple of
blank examples, section 8.1.1, just before 8.1.2. Also 5.2.1.
Steven Pemberton: I will look at it. I
was surprised at how relatively easy it was.
John Boyer: It sounds like a browser
issue, so it's not a problem for this version as it's not
normative.
Steven Pemberton: Yes, it's the
editor's version.
Charlie Wiecha: We need to get people
to use that pattern in the wiki.
Steven Pemberton: Yes, it has to be
documented.
John Boyer: In IE7, there aren't any
black boxes.
Steven Pemberton: The variables drive the next-generation of document expressions in Python. I'd like to make that XML to use XForms to configure the variables.
Philip Fennell: There aren't any
action items for me on this. I've distributed what I've done. I've
run this against the XForms documents in the test suite and found
some issues. One set is class, navindex, tabindex. I'm trying to
find a way to get the nvdl validation to work, but haven't finished
it. There are some issues with issues that come up invalid against
the schema. On the whole it seems quite effective for authoring
XHTML+XForms.
John Boyer: Is there a list of what's
broken in the tests?
Philip Fennell: Yes, in the email and
then a README file in the zip with the log output. Some are errors
because of testing errors. Others look like mistakes, two or
three.
Steven Pemberton: Can we discuss
class/accesskey/navindex?
Philip Fennell: Those have been taken
out of the XML schema and said they're host language. Is there a
way in NVDL to re-attach those? When they appear without namespace
prefixes, the assumption is that they're bound to XForms and throws
an error. There are ways to define specific contexts for matching,
which might get around the problem.
Steven Pemberton: I suspect that we'll
have to add these back into the schema.
Leigh Klotz: If it's an XHTML
integration issue we should suggest adding it to the XHTML in
integration, not the basic schema.
Leigh Klotz: Philip, are you using RNG
or XSD schema?
Philip Fennell: XSD
Leigh Klotz: Owen Newnan has a bunch
of fixes sent to us for the XSD schema. I updated the RNC schema
and it validates the test suite.
Philip Fennell: I should take a
look.
Steven Pemberton: What are the next
steps?
Philip Fennell: From my point of view,
I'll try the RelaxNG schema and see how that behaves. I'd like to
somehow re-attach the attributes to the HTML schema using
NVDL.
Steven Pemberton: It's something we've
long talked about in XHTML Modularization. But I don't think the
XSD schema uses that. That's one way of inserting attributes into a
Schema for different host languages.
Nick van: I think we should also go
through the error messages.
Leigh Klotz: I think we should fix the
schema before. Here's the link to Owen Newnan's report on our XSD:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2010Mar/0001.html
Philip Fennell: I can certainly do
that.
Action 2010-Setember-8.1: Philip Fennell to read Owen Newnan's report on our XSD and propose changes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2010Mar/0001.html
Leigh Klotz: We already know the
RNG schema validates the test suite and we know the XSD doesn't
validate it.
Steven Pemberton: So we can update it
outside TR space.
Action 2010-Setember-8.2: Philip Fennell to integrate RelaxNG schema into NVDL validation.
xforms-out-of-rangeLeigh Klotz: out-of-range and
invalid aren't related to each other. out-of-range is
presentational.
John Boyer: I think empty string is
different from a non-listed value.
Leigh Klotz: I don't think it's
different. Empty string is out of range for a checkbox and it's out
of range for a select1 which doesn't include empty string.
John Boyer: I think it's different
because empty string is an initial value.
Nick van: ...
John Boyer: If there is no match and
and the form control is not empty it should displaya as out of
range.
Leigh Klotz: I didn't know that we had
special text about empty string in select1.
John Boyer: http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#ui-selectOne
For closed selections: If the instance data matches the storage data of one of the selection items, that item is selected. If there is no match, no items are initially selected. If there is no match and the storage data is non-empty, the form control must indicate an out-of-range condition. If the form control switches to or from being out-of-range, then xforms-out-of-range or xforms-in-range must be dispatched to the form control.
Action 2010-Setember-8.3: John Boyer to answer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Sep/0007.html about out-of-range and invalid.
Steven Pemberton: We use the word
"illegal" just once in 4.5.1.
Leigh Klotz: I've seen
submission/@ref="false()".
Steven Pemberton: We clearly have a
task to define it. Do any implementors here send this event?
John Boyer: Yes.
Steven Pemberton: For illegal binding
expressions?
John Boyer: Yes.
Steven Pemberton: What does that
mean?
John Boyer: Syntactically invalid
XPath gives binding or compute exception. In a nodeset or ref
attribute and you get something that isn't that type, we throw and
exception for that too. I think we talked about this.
Charlie Wiecha: I think so.
Steven Pemberton: I'll send a note to
the group and we can kick off the discussion of when this is
sent.