Mark Birbeck, Web Backplane [IRC]
Philip Fennell, MarkLogic
Steven Pemberton, CWI/W3C (chair)
Leigh Klotz, Xerox (minutes)
Uli Lissé, DreamLabs
Kurt Cagle, National Archives [joined late]
Nick van den Bleeken, Inventive Designers [joined late]
Alain Couthures, AgenceXML [joined late]
Steven Pemberton: We have two potential regrets from Erik Bruchez and Nick van den Bleeken, and John Boyer hasn't showed.
Steven Pemberton: We may be able to
initialize the table for the bug tracker. They don't like us
re-initializing it; although we have 300 issues in the system, none
of hte URLs have any meaning as we've never used them.
Leigh Klotz: They're unusable; is
there a value for that?
Steven Pemberton: I suppose we could
just close them all but frankly I'd rather just start fresh since
we've never really used it.
Steven Pemberton: I send these in bi-weekly. I'll be sending another today.
Steven Pemberton: We're expecting
invited expert Kurt Cagle today. Dan MacCreary is also an invited
expert
Kurt Cagle: [joins] I'm working as a
consultant for Lockheed on the US National Archives project and
have been working with XForms for a long time. I'm doing the data
architecture for the national electronic archives project. I'm
working with XQuery and XForms to develop pieces as part of. I'm
not the XForms developer, but I'm trying to make it easier for the
XForms developers on staff.
Steven Pemberton: That's fantastic
news.
Steven Pemberton: Let's all introduce
ourselves to Kurt.
Steven Pemberton: We're using the wiki to coordinate distributed editing of specs.
Nick van: [joins] I will look at
the script.
Steven Pemberton: And I'll send it to
W3C staff to run it.
Leigh Klotz: It uses NVDL. I can't
get it to work?
Steven Pemberton: What's our current
status?
Leigh Klotz: How do we add to XHTML
elements using modularization?
Steven Pemberton: You can.
Leigh Klotz: And we should talk to
Shane McCarron about RNG integration.
Steven Pemberton: Yes, we're about to
publish the Relax version as a note.
Leigh Klotz: Is there an advantage to
using the XSD version because it's a Recommendation?
Steven Pemberton: No.
Leigh Klotz: What are the
mechanics?
Alain Couthures: [joins]
Steven Pemberton: We should talk to
Shane McCarron. I'll send a message to Shane, CC'ing you.
Action 2010-12-1.1: Steven Pemberton to contact Shane McCarron to set up meeting to discuss XHTML M12N using RelaxNG for XHTML+XForms integration.
Steven Pemberton: We answered Claudius Teodorescu's question.
Steven Pemberton: I think this is
too big a change for 1.2 but a good path to go down.
Kurt Cagle: It seems like the ability
to declare larger objects and the ability to do bindings (XBL2,
WebBL) are all related in a general extensions issue that I tend to
agree is something we can't get into 1.2. I wonder if a background
task to develop a note would be good.
Steven Pemberton: XBL has been
bubbling in the background but we've never run with it. Several
implementations use it as a basis for doing their controls. I think
that it's a valuable way of moving to the future; the problem is
that XBL within W3C is a little hazy. We've had the XBL2 spec with
no interest outside XForms. Ian Hixson recently made a major
uncoordinate change to it, which makes it strictly speaking useless
for us. I think there is a future in XBL. We had a discussion a few
weeks ago and for example we'd like to see XPath selectors.
Kurt Cagle: I tried that in the SVG
side and it didn't work.
Kurt Cagle: Implementations aside,
it might be nice to develop in the Wiki something like "import
modules" in XQuery. It might be worth creating a page where we can
talk about functional modularization for XForms. The function
extensions is one area, but if we look at it from a modularization
standpoint as with XQuery, it would be useful.
Steven Pemberton: Sounds like an
action item.
Action 2010-12-1.2: Kurt Cagle to create wiki page to discuss XForms and E11Y and M12N.
Nick van: [irc] How XBL is used in
Orbeon:
http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/doc/developer-guide/xbl-components-guide
Steven Pemberton: Yes, Mark Birbeck
did a version of Google Maps using XBL and XForms showing the power
of XBL.
Steven Pemberton: Are we done with
this topic for now?
Steven Pemberton: Alain, if you want
to put notes on the wiki about this, please go ahead.
Alain Couthures: I proposed two extensions: XQuery and XHTML5 menus. There was interest but also concerns about extensibility with widgets. The concerns were more about XForms than XSLTForms.
Steven Pemberton: There are two
issues you stated; the XQUery one.
Leigh Klotz: Follwing the link
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=AANLkTin4Cd609NVQxbwnMCmkwzCsX33p_2CrVE9%2B46nZ%40mail.gmail.com&forum_name=xsltforms-support
actions scripting using XQuery and its extensions (XUF,...) XForms recommendation is now specifying an XML notation for actions and I suggest that allowing an xf:script/@type="application/xquery" action would permit to write more complex actions with a well-known syntax. In fact, every action could be rewritten as a script instruction. Because XSLTForms already allows the author to define its own XPath functions, this would also permit to call them as actions, for browser interactivity for example.
Alain Couthures: It might make
extensions easier.
Steven Pemberton: XForms uses XML
Events and this gives you already an extension point. XML Events
would allow it, but you would <xhtml:script
type="application/xquery"> and you would be completely
conformant to XML Events. XML Events is deliberately vague about
what a handler is, as it covers various XML applications markup for
handlers.
Nick van: [irc] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-events2/#section-script-element
Steven Pemberton: Thank you, Nick.
Steven Pemberton: As for the second
issue on HTML5 element support, I can see how HTML5 elements
support what XForms already does, in a direct way.
Alain Couthures: The input
types.
Steven Pemberton: Like color
pickers?
Alain Couthures: Month. And items
about menus.
Steven Pemberton: That sounds like it
kicks off your discussion about binding controls to datatypes
rather than concrete elements for the controls.
Alain Couthures: Yes.
Steven Pemberton: How should we take
this forward? I'd like it if you could add a wiki page about a
script extension for XQuery, showing examples of how to use
it.
Kurt Cagle: What namespace?
Steven Pemberton: Not xforms
namespace, but I can't see why we can't use the xhtml namespace. It
should work with XML Events. Current browsers should recognize the
type attribute.
Action 2010-12-1.3: Alain Couthures to add wiki page for XForms 1.2 show use cases for xquery <xhtml:script type="application/xquery">
Alain Couthures: I'm preparing a
paper for XML Prague on JSON and it's more sophisticated now.
Leigh Klotz: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Json
Steven Pemberton: Kurt, you can use the XBL page at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XBL
Steven Pemberton: Anythign
else?
Leigh Klotz: How about
inputmode?
Steven Pemberton: Sounds good.
Leigh Klotz: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/InputMode