W3C Forms teleconference April 29, 2009

* Present

John Boyer, IBM (chair)
Leigh Klotz, Xerox (minutes)
Nick van den Bleeken, Inventive Designers
Steven Pemberton, CWI/W3C
Uli Lissé, DreamLabs
Charlie Wiecha, IBM

* Agenda


* Non-XHTML in test suite


Steven Pemberton: Who owns the test suite?
Nick van: The group.
Leigh Klotz: Anyone with CVS access.
Steven Pemberton: Someone reported that some of the test suite files aren't valid XML.
Nick van: Also the 1.0 test suite. The test file close the link elements.
Steven Pemberton: The tests are fine. It's the pages that point to the tests.
Nick van: I can put it on my list, but I can't work on it right now.
John Boyer: It sounds like it could go on the list behind other things.
Nick van: It isn't that much work, I guess.
Uli Lissé: I can have a look at them.

Action 2009-04-29.1: Uli Lissé to convert 1.1 test suite drivers to XHTML.

* Test Suite Access

Uli Lissé: Nick proposed hosting the test suite on Google Code.
John Boyer: We discussed it a bit; we'd need to look at the license.
Leigh Klotz: I think this is the license: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-license.html
Nick van: Our test suite isn't under that license; we haven't made that change.
John Boyer: I'd assumed anything from the W3C would be covered under it.
Nick van: I saw a message a few months ago that they were asking for a reference; there were a couple of possibilities, including the link Leigh sent.
John Boyer: So just this needs to go on the header page? Every file?
Nick van: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-copyright.html
Leigh Klotz: I see, it says we have to decide which license; BSD or W3C Test Suite.
John Boyer: The 3-clause BSD license would make it easy to put up on Google Code somewhere.
Leigh Klotz: Either I think would allow direct copies; the question is alterations. Since we expect the test suite to be altered for testing, the BSD license seems appropriate, but we really want only the non-XForms parts to be altered, for host language integration. So it's a shame really there's nothing else.
John Boyer: The W3C Test Suite License says ...
Leigh Klotz: I see; it's not us who gets to choose, it's the licensee: "The choice of license is up to the licensee for every single use of tests from a W3C Test Suite."
Leigh Klotz: It says how to use both for test suite authors: "For either license, include the following statement in a Test Suite (HTML markup shown):"

John Boyer: What constitutes modification? Modifying the XForms components? I know we've had the situation where the XForms model is in the head in some and in the body in others.
Leigh Klotz: That's the point I was making.
John Boyer: There's a difference between modifiying the test and the rest.
Leigh Klotz: Right, it says "Test Suites may distinguish the test harness (or, framework for navigation) and the actual tests. For these Test Suites, the prohibition of change only applies to the tests." So we're covered.
John Boyer: So we need this markup o the front page of our test.
Leigh Klotz: It just says "include the following statement in a Test Suite" so just one copy seems fine.
John Boyer: So if we use a repository other than W3C does W3C care?
Steven Pemberton: I don't know. What is the benefit of doing it this way?
John Boyer: Easier access.
Nick van: There's no CVS reporting, but Google Code hosting gives us better logs.
Steven Pemberton: Do we have any problem with working on it there and keeping a copy at W3C?
Nick van: I don't mind.
John Boyer: So moving snapshots to W3C for specifications. So the W3C CVS isn't giving the reports you want? The files aren't just in a zip file.
Nick van: Normally ViewVC or some other tool for queries; I thought it wasn't.
Leigh Klotz: They used to have something.
John Boyer: jigedit
Nick van: It only shows the last files. I wasn't able to generate a report of what was changed.
Leigh Klotz: Do you have command line access?
Nick van: It's Eclipse. I can't get Eclipse to give me history.
Leigh Klotz: So can Eclipise get to W3C CVS?
John Boyer: I think it's just an Eclipse problem. The command-line one works.
Nick van: I want to get to the top diretory and see all changes.
John Boyer: It does seem like a lot of work to move it out and back.
Nick van: When I have time again I'll look into command-line CVS.
John Boyer: For 1.1, the hope is that it won't need much more history.
Nick van: I'm not completely sure if we captured everything. Keith and I both did changes and I want to make sure we didn't lose any.
Leigh Klotz: Is there anonymous readonly access? That's all we need for history.
Nick van: That would be awesome; ant can generate XML history.
Steven Pemberton: Let me look.
Steven Pemberton: does putting ,cvslog at the end of the URL work for you?
John Boyer: Why does it need to be anonymous access?
Nick van: For read with ant, without setting up a certificate. ant cvslog.
Leigh Klotz: What's the path to the CVS server?
Nick van: I'll send it to you.

Action 2009-04-29.2: Leigh Klotz to investigate CVS ant log for W3C test suite.

Steven Pemberton: I have to ask for it for you. You have to send me a public key.

Action 2009-04-29.3: Nick van den Bleeken to attach W3C test suite license markup to root page of HTTP 1.1 http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-copyright.html

John Boyer: The difference between the test suite harness and the tes suite is also important. We want our own host language, for example.
Leigh Klotz: So the "harness" is anything not in the XForms namespace.
John Boyer: Right.
Leigh Klotz: And for XForms for HTML?
John Boyer: That will be the normative markup.

* XForms 1.1 Test Suite

John Boyer: We have a report that highlights rows without two implementations, but non-required features need only one.
Nick van: We have normative-Basic and normative-Full. Do we need it to be false in both?
John Boyer: The Full-vs.-Basic identifies feature sets. The conformance section of 1.1 has matured and uses "should" and "may" and "recommended" and "optional" any we don't need a Basic Conformance Profile any more.

John Boyer: Consider these:

Nick van: Which ones should I change? Ones not for normative-full need only one implementation?
John Boyer: I'm not sure if all of the tests have been correctly marked that way. So if the feature's not required, we only need to have one. I don't know if all the tests have been marked.
Nick van: They have, but maybe it's not accurate.
John Boyer: So the rule would be if it's not required, highlight the row only for zero implementations.
Nick van: That's easy.
John Boyer: 11.9.p would not highlight, but 11.9.q would highlight. 11.9.4.b would also highlight.

Action 2009-04-29.4: Nick van den Bleeken to update rules for highlighting colors of XForms 1.1 reports to correctly handle non-required tests; check 11.9.p, 11.9.q, and 11.9.4.b afterward.

Nick van: There are some section 8 orange.
John Boyer: I'd like to go back to the top of the list.

** 3.3.1.c3 Multiple schemas single namespace

(have one, need one)

John Boyer: It sounds like that test has been removed.

Action 2009-04-29.5: Nick van den Bleeken to remove test 3.3.1.c3 from test report.

** 4.2.4.a xforms-model-destruct after submission

(have one, need one)

John Boyer: I think the reported implementation was Chiba.
Nick van: Firefox 3.
John Boyer: Right.
Nick van: Mark had some comments.
John Boyer: The Ubiquity processor fails the test even though we dispatch xforms-model-destruct event and the message happens. The test has replace=all and there is a message. The level setting on the message is modal. We think a lot of web-based implementations will have difficulty with this test; it's hard to make something modal when the processor is going away.
Nick van: ...
John Boyer: Is there another way to test this? A setvalue?
Leigh Klotz: Could you do another submission?
John Boyer: SO It could run externally?
Leigh Klotz: Test it externally.
John Boyer: Like write to a file?
Leigh Klotz: Or post.
John Boyer: You can do a submission.
Leigh Klotz: So the page could ask for a UID and then when you replace the page will have the UID.
John Boyer: It could show the UID.
Leigh Klotz: You could populate the test input with a UID and the POST could set it up.
Nick van: Or you could generate a UID.
John Boyer: The page that comes back has to do the query after, with a button.
Nick van: Selenium can automate that.
John Boyer: It can be done on xforms-ready.
Nick van: Or in XHTML.
John Boyer: So replace all happens; it asks for a page; that page does a model-destruct; the model-destruct submits a new uid; the page gets a new UID.
Leigh Klotz: The page it asks for has an instance request, containing a UID.
Leigh Klotz: Now this is cross-domain POST test.
John Boyer: That's a headache for testing.
Leigh Klotz: So host the script the same place that you host the test.
John Boyer: I think we allow domain submission to happen instead of hosting the test; I'd have to ask Mark Birbeck.
Leigh Klotz: Then this won't cause any problems for you, and you can run the script somewhere else if you want.

Leigh Klotz: I'll write the test for 4.2.4.a. Does this work in Firefox?
John Boyer: Yes. The current one works.

Action 2009-04-29.6: Leigh Klotz to re-write 4.2.4.a test to use submission in xforms-model-destruct and unique id to verify submission.

* 8.1.6.a mediatype attribute on upload

(have one, need one)

John Boyer: I thought it was required. I see it's "should." The table's right. It's covered by Nick's action to change the table rules.

* 8.1.6.b incremental attribute on upload

(have one, need one)

John Boyer: Ubiquity doesn't support upload. Does Chiba suppor it?
Leigh Klotz: Yes.
John Boyer: But not this. Looks like EMC reported it.
Leigh Klotz: What does it do?
John Boyer: Good question.
Nick van: Why does Firefox pass upload but not this one.
Leigh Klotz: It gets an xforms-value-changed event when you select the file. I tried it in the Firefox plugin.
Leigh Klotz: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/XForms1.1/Edition1/Chapt08/8.1/8.1.6/8.1.6.b.xhtml
John Boyer: Would you ask him if this works in Firefox?

Action 2009-04-29.7: Leigh Klotz to ask Keith Wells if it's ok to mark http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Test/XForms1.1/Edition1/Chapt08/8.1/8.1.6/8.1.6.b.xhtml as passed.

Leigh Klotz: Done. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2009Apr/0019.html

* Meeting Ends

* IRC Log