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RE: DRAFT: XForms Instance Data Module

From: Klotz, Leigh <Leigh.Klotz@xerox.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:33:26 -0700
Message-ID: <E254B0A7E0268949ABFE5EA97B7D0CF4053A78A2@USA7061MS01.na.xerox.net>
To: "Charles F Wiecha" <wiecha@us.ibm.com>, "Mark Birbeck" <mark.birbeck@webbackplane.com>
Cc: "public-forms" <public-forms@w3.org>

>We had a bunch of trouble in Amsterdam wrestling with what happens when
we have non-XML data in the 
>instance (our "IDL" discussions) so I've punted on all these issues for
this initial cut. 

The IDL work was inspired by a desire to have a communication mechanism
between modules that didn't rely on events and was formal enough to be
implementable yet language neutral. We ran into difficulties not with
non-XML data in the instance, but with XML data in the instance, because
going further with the proposal would have required us to produce an IDL
for XPath, a direction nobody wanted to go.  In the end, we decided to
stick with events.

Leigh.

-----Original Message-----
From: public-forms-request@w3.org [mailto:public-forms-request@w3.org]
On Behalf Of Charles F Wiecha
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:16 AM
To: Mark Birbeck
Cc: public-forms
Subject: Re: DRAFT: XForms Instance Data Module


Hi Mark -- thanks very much for the comments.  I agree with the
direction that our modules, particularly the data and model ones, should
support a mix-and-match approach to their "content".

What I've done in this first iteration is take the approach I think we
adopted at the F2F which is to "do no innovation" over and above the
existing 1.1 spec and just attempt the refactoring necessary to split it
out into separate modules.

We had a bunch of trouble in Amsterdam wrestling with what happens when
we have non-XML data in the instance (our "IDL" discussions) so I've
punted on all these issues for this initial cut.

Let's discuss on the call whether we want to open this up again...or
perhaps some experimentation in the ubiquity project could point the way
as to how to do this...

Thanks, Charlie

Charles Wiecha
Manager, Multichannel Web Interaction
IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
P.O. Box 704
Yorktown Heights, N.Y.  10598
Phone: (914) 784-6180, T/L 863-6180, Cell: (914) 320-2614
wiecha@us.ibm.com


 

 

 

        Re: DRAFT: XForms Instance Data Module

 

 

        Mark Birbeck

                    to:

                      Charles F Wiecha

                                                               07/01/08
06:05 PM 
 

 

 

 

        Cc:

           public-forms

 

 

 

 







Hi Charlie,

Great to see this moving forwards.

My comments would be that this module probably does too much. I've
always thought that at root we need a 'data island' module, which does
nothing other than getting data from somewhere--or inline--and making it
available to other layers of the architecture. (Some notes on this from
a couple of years ago are here [1]. Note that in this discussion I also
suggested that we allow text, not just full well-formed XML
documents.)

There are a couple of reasons for this. The first is of course that it
is more modular, and makes it easier to co-ordinate; for example, we
don't need events to define data islands, which we would if we included
<setvalue> and <insert>.

Second, it makes it possible to break the way that data is referenced
from the data itself. For example, I wouldn't particularly want to see
<insert> to be limited to XML, when we come to define that. And I'd like
to see <bind> provide a 'view' on some underlying data that can be used
in many ways.

Regards,

Mark

[1] <http://www.formsplayer.com/node/50>



On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Charles F Wiecha <wiecha@us.ibm.com>
wrote:
> Dear Forms WG -- I'm not sure if this is on the agenda for tomorrow 
> (originally, we said we'd discuss binding last week and instance this
week
> but ... ) so am posting it now in case we do get to it.  It's still a
rough
> draft, particularly in that the examples continue to refer to elements

> outside the scope of this module such as UI controls and bind
elements.
We
> can discuss if this is on the right track or not...feedback would be 
> helpful.
>
> Thanks, Charlie
>
> (See attached file: index-all.html)
>
> Charles Wiecha
> Manager, Multichannel Web Interaction
> IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
> P.O. Box 704
> Yorktown Heights, N.Y.  10598
> Phone: (914) 784-6180, T/L 863-6180, Cell: (914) 320-2614 
> wiecha@us.ibm.com



--
Mark Birbeck, webBackplane

mark.birbeck@webBackplane.com

http://webBackplane.com/mark-birbeck,

webBackplane is a trading name of Backplane Ltd. (company number
05972288, registered office: 2nd Floor, 69/85 Tabernacle Street, London,
EC2A 4RR)
Received on Tuesday, 8 July 2008 17:35:20 UTC

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