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Re: Validity and required-ness and XForms 1.1

From: Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:05:28 -0700
Message-Id: <923FC8E3-51CB-4212-A466-D89F70980DF6@orbeon.com>
To: "Forms WG (new)" <public-forms@w3.org>

But AFAIK we never called this particular task of submission  
processing "validation", really.

This XForms 1.1 attribute is the first occurrence of the term  
"validate" which refer to both:

* validation as per xforms-revalidate
* checking required-but-empty

-Erik

On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:34 PM, John Boyer wrote:

>
> Hi Erik,
>
> The name 'validate' seems appropriate for an attribute of  
> *submission* as long as it controls the validation of submission,  
> which it does.
>
> Submission validation consists of the part that is validation and  
> the part that should be, er hem, validity as per constraint+type 
> +xsi:type+schema and and validity as per required-but-empty.
>
> The fact that required-but-empty was removed from user interface  
> validity (i.e. that which causes xforms-valid/xforms-invalid) is an  
> inconsistency that has not been changed by the validate attribute.   
> Submission validation includes required-but-empty, so the validate  
> attribute controls it.
>
> Cheers,
> John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
> Senior Technical Staff Member
> Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
> Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
> Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
> IBM Victoria Software Lab
> E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com
>
> Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer
> Blog RSS feed: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/rss/JohnBoyer?flavor=rssdw
>
>
>
>
> Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com>
> Sent by: public-forms-request@w3.org
> 04/28/2008 05:49 PM
>
> To
> "Forms WG (new)" <public-forms@w3.org>
> cc
> Subject
> Validity and required-ness and XForms 1.1
>
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
> At present, in XForms 1.0 and 1.1, the notions of "validity" and
> "required-but-empty" are separate. I remember this being discussed in
> the past, and the spec got at some point a clarification under "4.3.3
> The xforms-revalidate Event" [1] which says "A node that satifies the
> above conditions is valid even if it is required but empty."
>
> I think that it is debatable that "required-but-empty" should not be
> considered a constraint on the validity MIP, like other constraints
> are. But certainly, the fact that it isn't had us confused in the
> past, and still confuses users.
>
> This said, whatever the WG thinks of above, we have so far clarified
> this situation in the spec, so we look pretty consistent.
>
> However, unfortunately, there is one exception: we added in XForms 1.1
> an attribute called @validate on xforms:submission [2].
>
> This attribute not only checks the validity as per xforms-revalidate,
> but also checks whether there are nodes which are required-but-empty:
>
>   "If the attribute validate is true,whether by default or
>    declaration, then all selected instance data nodes are checked for
>    validity according to the definition in 4.3.3 The xforms-revalidate
>    Event (no notification events are marked for dispatching due to
>    this operation). Any selected instance data node that is required
>    but empty or found to be invalid stops submission processing after
>    dispatching event xforms-submit-error with context information
>    containing an error-type of validation-error."
>
> So unfortunately we are in a situation where we very clearly have a
> confused concept of validity in XForms:
>
> * Validity as per the MIP definition and xforms-revalidate
> * Validity as per xforms:submission and the @validate attribute
>
> Those are different: the former does not include the notion of
> "required-but-empty", and the latter does.
>
> This can be fixed in two ways:
>
> * Rename the attribute @validate on xforms:submission to something
>   else. This is easy, but it does not address the fact that it remains
>   confusing that "required-but-empty" is not considered a constraint
>   on validity.
>
> * Consider "required-but-empty" a constraint on validity that adds to
>   constraints set by schemas, types, and constraint MIPs.
>
> Looking forward to see what the WG things about this.
>
> (I am running for cover in advance for raising such an issue this late
> in the XForms 1.1 process.)
>
> -Erik
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#evt-revalidate
> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit
>
> --
> Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
> http://www.orbeon.com/
>
>
>

--
Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
http://www.orbeon.com/
Received on Tuesday, 29 April 2008 06:06:15 UTC

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