Re: Validity and required-ness and XForms 1.1

But AFAIK we never called this particular task of submission  
processing "validation", really.

This XForms 1.1 attribute is the first occurrence of the term  
"validate" which refer to both:

* validation as per xforms-revalidate
* checking required-but-empty

-Erik

On Apr 28, 2008, at 9:34 PM, John Boyer wrote:

>
> Hi Erik,
>
> The name 'validate' seems appropriate for an attribute of  
> *submission* as long as it controls the validation of submission,  
> which it does.
>
> Submission validation consists of the part that is validation and  
> the part that should be, er hem, validity as per constraint+type 
> +xsi:type+schema and and validity as per required-but-empty.
>
> The fact that required-but-empty was removed from user interface  
> validity (i.e. that which causes xforms-valid/xforms-invalid) is an  
> inconsistency that has not been changed by the validate attribute.   
> Submission validation includes required-but-empty, so the validate  
> attribute controls it.
>
> Cheers,
> John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
> Senior Technical Staff Member
> Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
> Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
> Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
> IBM Victoria Software Lab
> E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com
>
> Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer
> Blog RSS feed: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/rss/JohnBoyer?flavor=rssdw
>
>
>
>
> Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com>
> Sent by: public-forms-request@w3.org
> 04/28/2008 05:49 PM
>
> To
> "Forms WG (new)" <public-forms@w3.org>
> cc
> Subject
> Validity and required-ness and XForms 1.1
>
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
> At present, in XForms 1.0 and 1.1, the notions of "validity" and
> "required-but-empty" are separate. I remember this being discussed in
> the past, and the spec got at some point a clarification under "4.3.3
> The xforms-revalidate Event" [1] which says "A node that satifies the
> above conditions is valid even if it is required but empty."
>
> I think that it is debatable that "required-but-empty" should not be
> considered a constraint on the validity MIP, like other constraints
> are. But certainly, the fact that it isn't had us confused in the
> past, and still confuses users.
>
> This said, whatever the WG thinks of above, we have so far clarified
> this situation in the spec, so we look pretty consistent.
>
> However, unfortunately, there is one exception: we added in XForms 1.1
> an attribute called @validate on xforms:submission [2].
>
> This attribute not only checks the validity as per xforms-revalidate,
> but also checks whether there are nodes which are required-but-empty:
>
>   "If the attribute validate is true,whether by default or
>    declaration, then all selected instance data nodes are checked for
>    validity according to the definition in 4.3.3 The xforms-revalidate
>    Event (no notification events are marked for dispatching due to
>    this operation). Any selected instance data node that is required
>    but empty or found to be invalid stops submission processing after
>    dispatching event xforms-submit-error with context information
>    containing an error-type of validation-error."
>
> So unfortunately we are in a situation where we very clearly have a
> confused concept of validity in XForms:
>
> * Validity as per the MIP definition and xforms-revalidate
> * Validity as per xforms:submission and the @validate attribute
>
> Those are different: the former does not include the notion of
> "required-but-empty", and the latter does.
>
> This can be fixed in two ways:
>
> * Rename the attribute @validate on xforms:submission to something
>   else. This is easy, but it does not address the fact that it remains
>   confusing that "required-but-empty" is not considered a constraint
>   on validity.
>
> * Consider "required-but-empty" a constraint on validity that adds to
>   constraints set by schemas, types, and constraint MIPs.
>
> Looking forward to see what the WG things about this.
>
> (I am running for cover in advance for raising such an issue this late
> in the XForms 1.1 process.)
>
> -Erik
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#evt-revalidate
> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#submit
>
> --
> Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
> http://www.orbeon.com/
>
>
>

--
Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
http://www.orbeon.com/

Received on Tuesday, 29 April 2008 06:06:15 UTC