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Re: New spec-ready text for select/select1 with value and copy

From: John Boyer <boyerj@ca.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:48:59 -0700
To: ebruchez@orbeon.com
Cc: "Forms WG (new)" <public-forms@w3.org>, public-forms-request@w3.org
Message-ID: <OF8AAC5EFB.D002307C-ON88257385.005C588C-88257385.005C7E07@ca.ibm.com>
Hi Erik,

The non-destructiveness is in there, but it is perhaps as you say hidden 
to well.

I had actually thought this might be your reaction, so how about this:  I 
would actually like to take your bullet points and put them immediately 
below in the implementation hints part of each section.  What do you think 
of that?

Cheers,
John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
IBM Victoria Software Lab
E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com 

Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer





Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com> 
Sent by: public-forms-request@w3.org
10/31/2007 09:42 AM
Please respond to
ebruchez@orbeon.com


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Subject
Re: New spec-ready text for select/select1 with value and copy







John,

Sorry I could not get to this before you did.

One major thing seems to be missing, which is the mention that the
behavior of select is non-destructive (isue 89). I don't see this in
your text now (or if it is, it is hidden too well), and I think that
this should be made very explicit.

As a note, I think that surgical changes are good especially when
getting so close from CR, but the current result in my opinion is,
like the original 1.0 text, harder for somebody like me to understand
than an approach which tries to detail more precisely what should
happen, as I proposed to do.

-Erik

John Boyer wrote:
 >
 > The editor's draft now contains changes for issues 88 to 90 regarding
 > behavioral problems with value and copy [1,2].
 > [1]
 > 
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.1/index-diff.html#ui-selectMany 


 >
 > [2]
 > 
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/specs/XForms1.1/index-diff.html#ui-selectOne

 >
 > For the record, Erik's earlier text was really good and was used as a
 > guide. However, we needed it to be applicable to copy as well as value.
 > Also, when I got back into the spec, I found that the prior text had a
 > good idea of trying to say what would be true about the control
 > separately from when it would be enforced.  I also found that the
 > existing text contained some statements that I wanted to retain without
 > diff marks because they were contentious in the past.  For these
 > reasons, I had to be more surgical about the application of the ideas 
to
 > the spec.
 >
 > The separate text indicating when truth would be enforced was indeed
 > missing, so it was added, but it was unnecessary to drop into bullet
 > points because the "general truth" versions of  "For closed selections"
 > and "For open selections" already contained material commensurate with
 > the bullet points.  I also found it necessary to put diffs into binding
 > restrictions and implementation requirements, mainly to account for 
copy
 > at the same time as value.  Lastly, the comment about disallowing empty
 > and whitespace only values was added, but not as a note so there is no
 > confusion about whether it is normative.
 >
 > I believe that the new text synch's up very nicely with what Erik 
wanted
 > out of his last call comments (as indicated by his prior version of a
 > text solution), and that it also does provide consistency between value
 > and copy handling, so the diffs are worth your time reviewing.
 >
 > Please comment if you see anything needing improvement in [1,2].
 >
 > Thank you,
 > John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
 > STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
 > Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
 > Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
 > IBM Victoria Software Lab
 > E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com
 >
 > Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer
 >


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Received on Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:50:45 UTC

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