- From: Mike Macgirvin <mike@macgirvin.com>
- Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 10:31:14 +1000
- To: public-fedsocweb@w3.org
Hi Michael - A few years ago there was an attempt to rally people around the OStatus stack as a unifying protocol for the federated social web. It had some quite severe limitations where it came to privacy. Both Friendica and Diaspora emerged around the same time to try and capture a wave of discontent over a well-known large centralised provider. Since people were crying for privacy at the time, both projects came up with independent communication stacks to implement this privacy. Starting about 2 years ago, we started to see the limitations in all three projects. (I should also mention here the XMPP-based projects, which had privacy but originally had no decent linkage to web services such as online photo albums, web pages, file storage, etc.) So that really makes four - and several other projects which were trying to bolt privacy onto OStatus, and many more with their own unique approaches. At the same time we started to see these limitations, there was a lot of infighting on the "federated web". Even though many of these services could communicate through either OStatus (which used a "least common denominator" approach) or Friendica (which used the "polyglot" approach), it turns out that there were some real cultural divides and also "policy issues" which really threw a spanner in the works. What does it mean to share a private photo album? How do you do that - and federate it? What about hashtags? On what side of the fence do you link them? (Many services "steal" the hashtag links and point them at their own network). What do you do about services which have no distributed content deletion mechanism? (This is a big deal, incidentally.) I heard no end to the complaints about activity messages saying 'x is now friends with y' - because a lot of folks on the indie web are privacy extremists and felt this revealed too much information - despite being a common activity at that large provider who shall remain nameless. We also saw a lot of infighting that was age related. One network in particular didn't like folks on another because the members were generally older. An early incarnation of "zot" - Friendica's second generation protocol, was designed to be upwardly compatible with all three of the major web-based projects in terms of passing messages, and allow for future integration with XMPP and email (as well as proprietary and centralised providers). It was very quickly scuttled by all the infighting - and then many services started rebuilding the walled gardens that Friendica had broken down - including some on the indie web. So about a year ago - we all went back to the drawing board and started over. Federation was no longer a goal - when people had it, they (apparently?) didn't want it. Smoothing over "policy differences" is something that cannot be achieved by mandating a protocol (unless these are part of the protocol definition). It would require enumeration of the issues involved and a concerted effort to come up with an acceptable policy base. Then you can start talking about protocols. Trying to dictate protocols (such as was done in the first generation) when you haven't even figured out what problems you're solving and what you're trying to achieve is a bit pointless. In the meantime, we've all moved on. We're no longer trying to build a decentralised version of that nameless large provider. We're looking at a world far beyond that and asking what a decentralised world of the future without that provider looks like. The Diaspora folks went into meme generators, and the community they left behind is re-grouping. Friendica is moving into the distributed authentication and identity space with Red, and Status.Net is being reborn as we speak into a privacy-aware ActivityStream pump. These aren't exactly congruent. For instance, Red's nomadic identities have no ideal mapping to webfinger - on which many of the other projects are inextricably linked. I think it's a bit early in this new world to talk about bringing them together under a common umbrella or even finding a common language. I'm more interested in seeing what this new world will look like and what this new generation of decentralised projects brings to the table. It isn't going to look *anything* like the first generation. Pump and Red will eventually be able to communicate, I'm certain of that. We've got pieces working now. There are policy differences so the resulting communication will probably not be seamless. I've yet to get a good sense for where Diaspora is going. They need to figure out what they want to be before they can map out how to get there. And I'm hoping we can find ways across the XMPP divide, as Buddycloud has also come a long way. And there are 30-40 other projects who are exploring their own visions of this new world. This doesn't really answer your specific questions, but it tells you where I think we're at in that process from my own point of view. I'd be interested to hear from others and at least keep the dialogue open as we head down these somewhat different roads. A federated future probably involves passing things that look like ActivityStreams through somewhat feature rich web-based APIs. Beyond that, the picture gets a bit fuzzy. Cheers. Mike Macgirvin (the Friendica/Red dude)
Received on Friday, 31 May 2013 00:31:40 UTC