W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-evangelist@w3.org > March 2004

RE: The use of W3C standards in Denmark Part II

From: Soren Johannessen <hal@ae35-unit.dk>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:36:17 +0100
To: "'Karl Dubost'" <karl@w3.org>
Cc: <public-evangelist@w3.org>
Message-ID: <001601c402e0$bfc11b10$0300000a@ae35>



It's a very impresssive *manual* work you have done.
	* Have you thought about using automatic tools to do it?
Soren J: YES! I have indeed , a true copy and paste hell doing it
manually ;-)

	* If no, was it because you had not all skills to create a
program for 
that purpose?
SorenJ: I have not such much skills in this issue- I am more a person
who takes a free scripts and then modifify so it fits to my purpose on
Webpages.  

	* Or have you identified things which can not be done
automatically?

Soren J: I think everything can be done automatically when I first have
the collections of URI's ready in a spreadsheet, MySQL database or on a
web-page.


What would we be your dream tools to do that.

Your process seems to be:

1. List of URIs
2. Detect if Frame or Not
3. Doctype Yes/No
  - If no doctype -> invalid
  - If doctype -> send to the W3C Validator
4. Which Doctype?
5. Encoding Problems (what kind of test? validator? visual? -> 
web-sniffer.net)
SorenJ: like what does the HTTP header repons says and what does the
HTML doc's metatag or the XML declaration says. Any conflicts webserver
versus HTML/XHTML documents.

6. Number of Errors Validity (Not a good criteria because of 
cascading). density of errors is a better criteria, but still not 
perfect.

SorenJ: maybe an PHP script which goes into MySQL database and takes the
Colunms with the URI's and then some IF THEN statesments like you
describe above dectect Frame or not and return the values back from
DOCTYPE to MySQL database in a new columns and go back to W3C's
validator and return values like VAlID or NOT VALID numbers of errors
etc.
And of course some time out funcitions to the script does not stop,
because it's waiting for W3C Validator or Web-sniffer etc different
tools.
The PHP script should be possible to set up to any META tag I am looking
for fx like "<meta name="GENERATOR"> tag and return it back to MySQL
database... Is all this a impossible dream?



One possible problems, the Web site does browser sniffing and the Web 
page which has been sent is not really the home page, but a message 
page (error or indirection).

SorenJ: As I understood from Brian Kelly this should be the case in 5 %
of all issues?

My advice for> Danish
> Ministry for Science, Technology and Innovation was that in this
issue,
> high-tech people have to create templates for not so HTML/XHTML 
> familiar
> workers like the example I gave above. Second advice, high tech people

templates for Dreamweaver and Frontpage?
SorenJ: Help with templates to all kind of manual webpage editors. 

> have to set up systems that use PHP/ASP server side scripting 
> language, CMS etc. to use a correct W3C Standard template. We can't 
> assume or demand that every one that produce text/content for the web 
> knows things like this.

Do you have examples of tools producing the right code?
SorenJ: Well I as have mention before CMS is not bad if the right people
code them correct. But a wild guess here! I think home pages using
Apache webservers is better than others to following the W3C standards.
I don't have any data from surveys about this yet. A lot of these free
PHP-webloging with MySQL database as backend tools is also during a good
job creating correct W3C HTML/XHTML. 

That would be very interesting. You would be pleased to know that the 
W3C Mark-Up validators is mainly developped by Scandinavian persons. Do 
you think that the Denmark government could finance such an effort for 
the Danish version?

SorenJ: Nice to know about the scandinavian people and the W3C
Validator. About a danish version of W3C Validator, how many words are
the all help documentations for the endusers "the explain that options
you get when you got an error"
, and numbers of words in the W3C Validator home-page. I assume the
underlaying programing language is still going to be the same.  If the
help document is only http://validator.w3.org/docs/errors.html and not
so much more! I maybe can find a team for translation of that for free!
How much do you think W3C will charge for hosting  a
(danishvalidator.w3.org)  danish Validator version pr year.? Then I can
provide this amount pr. year and the hole idea for some one in the
Danish Ministry for Science. Now things are going to be very interesting
with ping pong of ideas over the big sea.


Do you know Marko Karppinen effort?
http://www.markokarppinen.com/20030224.html
SorenJ: NO, but it's seem like the same test I did. Strange to be member
of a standard organization and then not follow the standards ;-)

Latest news from media: a radio journalist is in the near future going
to produce a radioshows about W3C standards "He is a Mac user and fell
the pains" he had found my page and was very interesting to contact me
later on.

Soren
Received on Friday, 5 March 2004 13:50:57 GMT

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