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RE: SKOS Comment (Reference WD June 2008) - broaderTransitive < broader, narrowerTransitive < narrower

From: Alistair Miles <alistair.miles@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:46:28 +0100
To: "'Alasdair Gray'" <agray@dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Cc: <public-esw-thes@w3.org>, <public-swd-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <007801c8f0c0$b7f67ab0$27e37010$@miles@zoo.ox.ac.uk>

Hi Alasdair,

I had a go at improving the preamble to section 8, but I'm afraid I may have
made it worse not better :) I'm particularly not sure the use of "ancestor"
and "descendant" helps.

I'd be very grateful if you could take a quick look:

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/master.html#semantic-relations

Thanks,

Alistair.

--
Alistair Miles
Senior Computing Officer
Image Bioinformatics Research Group
Department of Zoology
The Tinbergen Building
University of Oxford
South Parks Road
Oxford
OX1 3PS
United Kingdom
Web: http://purl.org/net/aliman
Email: alistair.miles@zoo.ox.ac.uk
Tel: +44 (0)1865 281993


> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-swd-wg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-swd-wg-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Alasdair Gray
> Sent: 28 July 2008 11:22
> To: Alistair Miles
> Cc: public-esw-thes@w3.org; public-swd-wg@w3.org
> Subject: Re: SKOS Comment (Reference WD June 2008) - broaderTransitive
> < broader, narrowerTransitive < narrower
> 
> 
> Hi Alistair,
> 
> (Sorry to take so long to get back to you)
> 
> I've just re-read Section 8.1 Preamble. For the type of document that
> the reference is, perhaps the existing text is correct. An example
> would be more correctly placed in the Primer.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alasdair
> 
> On 25 Jul 2008, at 16:26, Alistair Miles wrote:
> 
> > Hi Alasdair,
> >
> > On Fri, 2008-07-25 at 15:41 +0100, Alasdair Gray wrote:
> >> Hi Alistair,
> >>
> >> Until the workshop in London at the start of this week I had been
> >> unclear about when to use skos:broader and skos:broaderTransitive.
> >> Antoine's talk really cleared this up for me.
> >
> > Yes, I thought his slide on this was very nice.
> >
> >> However, the way you
> >> have worded the reply below would, I think, help. That is, give the
> >> motivation for the two and then explain them. Perhaps an example
> >> helps
> >> as well.
> >
> > Are you suggesting we use wording similar to that I gave below in the
> > SKOS Reference? (I'm editing the new draft today, so can review
> > wording.)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Alistair.
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks to all the speakers on Monday,
> >>
> >> Alasdair
> >>
> >> On 25 Jul 2008, at 11:34, Alistair Miles wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Dear Joao Alberto,
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for your comment.
> >>>
> >>> I know Antoine has already responded, but I thought I'd add a
> >>> slightly
> >>> different way of looking at it:
> >>>
> >>> The property skos:broader represents a *direct* hierarchical link
> >>> between
> >>> two concepts.
> >>>
> >>> The property skos:broaderTransitive represents a *direct or
> >>> indirect*
> >>> hierarchical link between two concepts.
> >>>
> >>> The set of *direct* links is clearly a sub-set of the set of
> *direct
> >>> or
> >>> indirect* links.
> >>>
> >>> Hence skos:broader is a sub-property of skos:broaderTransitive.
> >>>
> >>> The WG is very conscious that this point has caused a lot of
> >>> confusion. Any
> >>> suggestions for how to make this pattern clearer are warmly
> >>> welcomed.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>>
> >>> Alistair.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Alistair Miles
> >>> Senior Computing Officer
> >>> Image Bioinformatics Research Group
> >>> Department of Zoology
> >>> The Tinbergen Building
> >>> University of Oxford
> >>> South Parks Road
> >>> Oxford
> >>> OX1 3PS
> >>> United Kingdom
> >>> Web: http://purl.org/net/aliman
> >>> Email: alistair.miles@zoo.ox.ac.uk
> >>> Tel: +44 (0)1865 281993
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: public-swd-wg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-swd-wg-
> >>>> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Ana Oliveira
> >>>> Sent: 26 June 2008 03:44
> >>>> To: public-swd-wg@w3.org
> >>>> Subject: SKOS Comment (Reference WD June 2008) -
> >>>> broaderTransitive <
> >>>> broader, narrowerTransitive < narrower
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear SKOS Editors,
> >>>>
> >>>> The definition S19 states that:
> >>>>   "S19  skos:broader is a sub-property of skos:broaderTransitive
> >>>> and
> >>>> skos:narrower is a sub-property of skos:narrowerTransitive".
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the correct form should be:
> >>>>   "S19  skos:broaderTransitive is a sub-property of skos:broader
> >>>> and
> >>>> skos:narrowerTransitive is a sub-property of skos:narrower".
> >>>>
> >>>> because "to be broader transitive" is a specific case of "to be
> >>>> broader" (or narrower). The generic property should subsumes the
> >>>> specific one.
> >>>>
> >>>>    If my comment is correct, it is necessary to adjust the "full
> >>>> set
> >>>> of sub-property relationships" diagram (above "Example 53") to
> >>>> follow
> >>>> this new hierarchy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best
> >>>>
> >>>> Joao Alberto de Oliveira Lima
> >>>>
> >>>> PS. This same comment was done in March'08 by
> >>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-
> wg/2008Mar/0089.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Dr Alasdair J G Gray
> >> agray@dcs.gla.ac.uk
> >> http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~agray/
> >> http://explicator.dcs.gla.ac.uk/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> Dr Alasdair J G Gray
> agray@dcs.gla.ac.uk
> http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~agray/
> http://explicator.dcs.gla.ac.uk/
> 
> 
> 
Received on Monday, 28 July 2008 14:47:42 GMT

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