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RE: subject indicators ... ?

From: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:04:15 +0200
To: <carlmattocks@checkmi.com>, "Miles, AJ \(Alistair\)" <A.J.Miles@rl.ac.uk>
Cc: "'Stella Dextre Clarke'" <sdclarke@lukehouse.demon.co.uk>, <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
Message-ID: <GOEIKOOAMJONEFCANOKCMECHFAAA.bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>


Carl

> Perhaps as a placekeeper you should just use PublishedSubjectIndicator and
> give the OASIS folks the luxury of defining / defending that paradigm (it
> is NOT easy).

As said before, the "OASIS folks" have somehow been stuck for quite a time now in this
"luxury work",due to several reasons including lack of task force, lack of support of
major sponsors for this activity, and lack of consensus on what we wanted to achieve. Lars
Marius Garshol, who has been one important actor in the Published Subjects committee, with
whom I often friendly disagreed, and even sometimes agreed (hi Lars)jumped lately in this
forum and will correct me if I am wrong.

It is a good thing to see other communities following up on this crucial issue of
interoperable concept identification, and grab the concept of subject indicator.

That said, if you really think that it makes sense to integrate the original topic map
concept in SKOS, why not use the same name from the property that in the XTM namespace,
that is exactly "subjectIndicatorRef", and declare it to be an (exact?) match of this
property, that is :

skos:subjectIndicatorRef  skos-map:exactMatch  xtm:subjectIndicatorRef

where xtm stands for the XTM namespace http://www.topicmaps.org/xtm/1.0/

Maybe it's too strong a commitment. I guess Lars Marius will soon comment on that :))

Cheers

Bernard

Bernard Vatant
Senior Consultant
Knowledge Engineering
Mondeca - www.mondeca.com
bernard.vatant@mondeca.com


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : public-esw-thes-request@w3.org
> [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]De la part de Carl Mattocks
> Envoyé : jeudi 7 octobre 2004 17:35
> À : Miles, AJ (Alistair)
> Cc : 'Stella Dextre Clarke'; 'public-esw-thes@w3.org'
> Objet : RE: subject indicators ... ?
>
>
>
> Al:
>
> Perhaps as a placekeeper you should just use PublishedSubjectIndicator and
> give the OASIS folks the luxury of defining / defending that paradigm (it
> is NOT easy).
>
> carl
> <quote who="Miles, AJ (Alistair)">
> >
> > Thanks Stella.
> >
> > I agree, the name 'indicator' is a bit vague ... I originally suggested it
> > because of the parallel with the OASIS published subject indicator
> > paradigm,
> > and in the additional hope of building a bit of overlap with topic-map
> > standards.
> >
> > I think 'authority' and 'source' are unfortunately a bit overloaded ...
> >
> > Some more ideas (brainstorming here): 'resolveTo' 'resolutionTarget'
> > 'webPresence' 'webDescriptor' ... (still not discounting 'indicator') ???
> >
> > Al.
> >
> > ---
> > Alistair Miles
> > Research Associate
> > CCLRC - Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
> > Building R1 Room 1.60
> > Fermi Avenue
> > Chilton
> > Didcot
> > Oxfordshire OX11 0QX
> > United Kingdom
> > Email:        a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk
> > Tel: +44 (0)1235 445440
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Stella Dextre Clarke [mailto:sdclarke@lukehouse.demon.co.uk]
> >> Sent: 07 October 2004 12:15
> >> To: 'Miles, AJ (Alistair) '; public-esw-thes@w3.org
> >> Subject: RE: subject indicators ... ?
> >>
> >>
> >> Just trying to catch up with this one. I guess such a
> >> property could be
> >> useful. The purpose seems to be to point to the place where
> >> you can find
> >> out the most authoritative information available about a concept. I
> >> begin to wonder whether the name should involve something
> >> like "source"
> >> or "authority", although I don't have any objection to "indicator",
> >> except perhaps that it is vague. I can't point to any existing
> >> convention for what people tend to call this type of
> >> property, since it
> >> is a fairly new way of doing things. I see it as perhaps a way of
> >> providing added value to the traditional thesaurus model, and
> >> time will
> >> tell whether and how people find it useful. ( It's not easy trying to
> >> make up standards in advance of precedents!)
> >> Cheers
> >> Stella
> >>
> >> *****************************************************
> >> Stella Dextre Clarke
> >> Information Consultant
> >> Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, Oxon, OX12 8RR, UK
> >> Tel: 01235-833-298
> >> Fax: 01235-863-298
> >> SDClarke@LukeHouse.demon.co.uk
> >> *****************************************************
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org
> >> [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Miles, AJ
> >> (Alistair)
> >> Sent: 06 October 2004 14:22
> >> To: 'public-esw-thes@w3.org'
> >> Subject: FW: subject indicators ... ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >AJM said:
> >> Also I wasn't talking about identifying concepts in relation
> >> to *someone
> >> elses* indicators, although this would be a possibility [with the
> >> implication that (?x skos:indicator ?i) (?y skos:indicator ?i) -> (?x
> >> skos-map:exactMatch ?y)].
> >>
> >> So I just realised that, if allowed to be used in this way,
> >> of course a
> >> 'skos:indicator' type property *should not* be an IFP.
> >>
> >> An alternative name has been suggested to me, something involving the
> >> word 'indicative' ... e.g. 'indicativeRepresentation'
> >> 'indicativeResource' ... just throwing ideas out, hoping to
> >> work towards
> >> a name that reflects well the intended usage.
> >>
> >> Al.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Alistair Miles
> >> Research Associate
> >> CCLRC - Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
> >> Building R1 Room 1.60
> >> Fermi Avenue
> >> Chilton
> >> Didcot
> >> Oxfordshire OX11 0QX
> >> United Kingdom
> >> Email:        a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk
> >> Tel: +44 (0)1235 445440
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org
> >> > [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Leonard Will
> >> > Sent: 05 October 2004 16:49
> >> > To: public-esw-thes@w3.org
> >> > Subject: Re: subject indicators ... ?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In message
> >> > <350DC7048372D31197F200902773DF4C05E50C6E@exchange11.rl.ac.uk>
> >> >  on Tue, 5
> >> > Oct 2004, "Miles, AJ (Alistair)" <A.J.Miles@rl.ac.uk> wrote
> >> > >The idea I had for a 'skos:indicator' property is that it
> >> > points to a
> >> > >web resource that consists of a *complete* description of
> >> > the concept.
> >> > >This should include labels, definitions, examples, etc.
> >> > where present.
> >> >
> >> > I would think that the only place you would find a suitable
> >> > *complete*
> >> > description would be within a knowledge organisation scheme
> >> that had
> >> > been compiled in accordance with the standards that you are
> >> > using. Are
> >> > you then just in the situation of borrowing elements from
> >> > other KOSs -
> >> > i.e. merging or mapping?
> >> >
> >> > >Such a 'skos:indicator' property would also provide an
> >> > alternative to
> >> > >resolvable URIs for concepts ... i.e. you can have a concept with a
> >> > >non-resolvable URI, and if you are looking for a complete
> >> > >(content-negotiable) description of that concept, you look up the
> >> > >'indicator'.
> >> >
> >> > What could an "indicator" be if it pointed to a web resource
> >> > but was not
> >> > a URI? I thought that a URI was a general name for something that
> >> > pointed to a web resource.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not sure what you mean by "content-negotiable".
> >> >
> >> > Leonard
> >> > --
> >> > Willpower Information       (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will,
> >> > Sheena E Will)
> >> > Information Management Consultants              Tel: +44
> >> > (0)20 8372 0092
> >> > 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex EN2 7BQ, UK. Fax: +44
> >> > (0)870 051 7276
> >> > L.Will@Willpowerinfo.co.uk
> >> > Sheena.Will@Willpowerinfo.co.uk
> >> > ---------------- <URL:http://www.willpowerinfo.co.uk/>
> >> > -----------------
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carl Mattocks
>
> co-Chair OASIS (ISO/TS 15000) ebXMLRegistry Semantic Content SC
> co-Chair OASIS Business Centric Methodology TC
> CEO CHECKMi
> v/f (usa) 908 322 8715
> www.CHECKMi.com
> Semantically Smart Compendiums
> (AOL) IM CarlCHECKMi
>
Received on Monday, 11 October 2004 08:11:36 UTC

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