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TPAC f2f Summary

From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:56:07 +0000
Message-ID: <4EBBE607.8000006@w3.org>
To: "eGov IG (Public)" <public-egov-ig@w3.org>

is it really a week since I landed back at Heathrow after TPAC. My 
calendar says it is so it must be - which means it's taken me longer 
than I would have liked to write a little summary of the two days' 


Agenda, including links to slides where available, is at [1]. This also 
links to the minutes of the meeting (top of the page) which I've now 
cleaned up so it knows who was who.

It's hard to compress two full days' discussion into something short and 
manageable but I'll try.

A recurring theme was that getting government departments to one star is 
the hardest part (i.e. publishing any information at all under an open 
licence in any format [2]). The GLD WG, with which there is a lot of 
crossover in the IG of course, is the place to focus on 4 and 5 stars.

Dave McAllister (Adobe) made the point that PDF is an open standard and 
that we shouldn't condemn any particular standard.

The eGov IG is more tech neutral. We can partner with W3C WGs if necessary.

Social media is important.

Jeanne and other who were there reported on the Open Gov Data Camp in 
Warsaw. See Bernadette's blog [2a] This prompted a short discussion on 
the difference between publishing and leaking data.

Hadley talked about her work to help translate gov data. If you don't 
know the magic terms to search for (i.e. the jargon), you won't find 
what you want.

Several comments around the fact that this is a huge change in working 
patterns for gov employees. What to publish? What records to keep etc. 
No one is assigned to do this, no one sees the need. It's just one more 
thing for busy people to have to do.

Lead to talk of building an ecosystem.

Engaging with different communities - not just hackathons, although they 
are a useful tool. Ref. Random Hacks of Kindness [3], Rewired State [4].

Possible Task Force: Why should companies produce tools to work with 
open data? Sustainable business models, not just Apps for kudos.

Talk of provenance, data correction etc. Even if you know who published 
the data, if you tell them about a mistake, the responses vary. Poss 
links to Provenance WG? New work on defining APIs for data correction etc.?

Josema joined the meeting (remotely, late at night in Spain) and told us 
about Open data in Developing Countries [5]

Kenya concerned about making open data sustainable - echoes thoughts 
about commercial apps etc. data.gov.uk now operating with much reduced 
resources, little linked data activity etc.

Josema also talked about Organisational Identifiers Workshop [6]. Dunn 
and Bradstreet identifiers - need something better (note - since then, 
UK Companies House has now set up URIs for all registered companies [7]. 
See also Open Corporates [8]).

This touches on work in the EU and elsewhere. Raises problem of 
duplication of effort. Personalities come is, as do jurisdictions, 
different time scales etc. One big group is not achievable.

This merged into a discussion about role of W3C, standards, concept 
schemes etc.

Dave McAllister put it well: So what I'm hearing is that we need to 
decide what problem(s) we are solving, and for whom. And whether they 
see it as a problem

Hadley then lead a session on open gov (slides at [9]). Different types 
of data, different data quality, difficulty of merging data, different 
levels of, and need for, trust.

Who is a user?

I talked about the EU projects W3C is involved in [10]. Includes series 
of workshops that we're organising or involved with.

Discussion of DCAT, ADMS, other core vocabulary work under SEMIC.

John Erickson talked about long standing work at RPI on catalogue metadata.

Showed a demo of a Semantic Water Quality App [11]. Raises questions 
about gov fears about misinterpretation, lack of context etc.

Hadley talked more about LinkedGov work, helping creation of mashups, 
importance of metadata, cleaning up data and more.

In summary: this session looked at the problems from multiple angles. 
Helping gov employees to publish is important, but so too are 
demonstrations of direct benefit to those individuals as well as the 

Jason Kiss, of New Zealand's Department of Internal Affairs talked about 
accessibility which is a big issue for government publishers. It's an 
important topic for eGov therefore with several govs mandating WCAG or 
variations on that theme. Jason took an action item to gather a list of 
gov policies on accessibility.

Social Media

The use of social media as a means of connecting govs to citizens is an 
interesting topic that we discussed at length on the morning of day 2.

Some govs have official guidelines on soc med use by staff and elected 
officials. Experience varies around the world in the use of Soc Med by 
legislators on the floor of the relevant house.

Kevin Simkins presented his work on virtual worlds. On one level, this 
has possibilities for more effective conference calls but add in 
artificial intelligence etc. and virtual worlds could be important in 
policy modelling, town planning etc.

Soc Med used to solicit campaign contributions.

eGov can get carried away with the idea that everyone is connected and 
on social media. A lot of people are not online at all. Some homeless 
people are given mobile devices with time limited access so that they 
can interact with govt. agencies. Echoes use of mobile in developing world.

Interesting discussion around whether a Tweet from an elected official 
should be part of the public record. If so how? Possible Task Force 
within eGov?

Yosuke Funahashi, co-chair of the Web and TV WG, talked to us about the 
use of soc med for emergency alerts, such as tsunami alerts (hence 
interest from Web and TV group).

-> Poss Task Force on how to use the Web for emergency alerts?

Interesting Perspectives from Taiwan, Switzerland, Russia, Taiwan gov 
not great users of social media, for example. Idea of 2 way 
communication not entirely bedded into the minds of all politicians.

Kevin Simkins pointed to poss uses of Augmented Reality in posting 
notices etc., about queue lengths for public services and so on. 2 years 
out but coming fast.

Community Directory

Bernadette Hyland talked through the work of the GLD WG [12] and showed 
us the Community Directory her company has produced that is now 
available via a w3.org URI at http://www.w3.org/egov/directory/ [13]. 
BAsed on the Callimachus platform, it's driven entirely by Sem Web 
technology. Action - enter your details! mailto:support@3roundstones.com 
to get login credentials.

Lego Session
As well as Hallowe'en treats, Jeanne also provided a big bag of Lego 
bricks for us to build a model as a metaphor for eGov. Those on remote 
were invited to find images and share those.

See Bernadette's coverage of this 

Talked about open spaces with structure. Organic elements.

Talked about incomplete elements that don't always connect. A super hero 
can do radical things that might help or hurt.
Some parts under development.
The alligator and bird symbolised different agendas
Shield and spear to symbolise security needs.

Dave McAllister
Talked about need for guidance, translation. Last guy is a geek. He has 
a tie and a propeller on his head. Someone has to actually do the work
Said we have to deliver in any environment.
Build on what we have now. bridge between IT and the people.
Steps and Ramps to help people up.

Talks about a solid base, with guidance, a-political guide (red/blue). 
Lots of apps and multimedia.
Missing piece is app made up from lost of different data sets.

John Erickson
Talks about lost of different people involved. One robotic, industrial 
strength, last guy is quality control. Edward Scissorhands to do the 
semantification. LD isn't magic, it just tales time.

Bernadette Hyland

Used her son's model to say "if everybody cooperates and shoots in the 
same direction, it's an unstoppable force"
mixed date interoperable: unending lego sets intermixed
Think of the humble URI as the Lego brick.
Where lego has been, the web is going

John: if lego was just separate things. it wouldn't be as cool.

Education and Outreach

John Erickson lead a session on E&O. Lots of good education material 
within the group. How to use this?

PhilA talked about W3C online training [14]. This is expanding. provides 
a platform on which existing material can use re-purposed for online 
training. Has worked well for Mobile Web, SVG, now HTML5. Self-financing 
(tutors get paid %age of revenue - yes, we charge for courses!)

Problem is we'd need not just a server, but access to data store, SPARQL 
endpoint etc. if talking about LD.

Hosting JS etc is easy cf. hosting LD.

Some communities are huge (millions) with v. few support staff.

We need to engage with data journalists (action Jeanne).

Think in terms of real world problems. How to find out about a 
brownfield site etc.

Jeanne pointed to example of open data in the classroom 

John talked about David Schuff 

John's summary:

1. Think about re-purposing teaching material for online course.
2. Resources is an issue. If teaching LD, you need LD hosting.
3. Value of mobile Web course is the forum - how to enable that
    to persist?


During the two days, Jeanne invited us all to write ideas on cards 
either physically or electronically. Here's a collated list of those 
from across the two days. They give a flavour of the topics that were 
discussed and that are on people's minds:

- Collect the resources of everyone's social media network
- I would like to see a discussion towards the end on what
   other sub groups are required
- How do "FOI" policies/practices vary in regions outside USA?
- Several people have asked for the collection of use cases
   (stories, benefits, outcomes) around open data
- Should we have a task force on the business cases?
- How to make open data + apps sustainable. How can we provide
   guidance that is peer-reviewed and properly advertised on the
   Web, possibly even coming from some standards body or hub site?
- What can be done to associated basic provenance info, even an
   authority & URL of source, of data in a mashup. John Erickson gave
   an example that he had to email some developers to find out where
   they pulled data from; Bernadette gave examples of mashups where data
   was just incorrect and there was no way to reach back to the
   developer and cite correct data.
- develop the persona of constituents
- Should we consider helping to inform a standard API(s) that could be
   included to show how to correct the data?
- sub force on reputation and trust
- No more papers, only instances of the use of the data
- Coordinate with Crossover project for June 2012 (Barcelona) or final
   March 2013 (Lisbon) <- Correction, the event will be in Brussels but,
   confusingly, organised by the Lisbon Council.
- for GLD WG: clarify the DCAT development/recommendation process
   within the context of the GLD's work.
- How does eGov fit into the model of digital have-nots
- we should collect and look across for commonalities of elements
- possible Task force on how to record/archive social media usage
   that needs to be archived as part of the public record.

And so to the action items collected at the end of Day 2.

Jason Kiss to provide list on international policies and guidelines on 

Jeanne H to invite data journalists to the group.

Jeanne to Convene a small team to develop an immediate and long term 
mechanism for collection use cases

HadleyBeeman Create a way of organizing and analyzing use case content 
to take back to governments and other stakeholders by 2012-01-15

bhyland Explore the augmentation of the GLD Directory project to support 
some aspects of data quality 2011-12-15

Jeanne Share the eGov IG membersí social networks (to be assigned to 
eGov co-chair TBD) by 2012-1-15

Dave McAllister Create a way of organizing and analyzing social media 
policies to identify commonalities 2012-03-15

PhilA Identify the proper W3C parties that would be part of exploring 
the solutions to making apps developed from open data sustainable

sandro Identify other activities in the W3C that could inform or be 
recipients of requirements from the eGov IG 2012-04-01

kevinsimkins Identify activities in the IEEE that could inform the eGov 
IG by 2012-01-2

Jeanne Change frequency and perhaps time of meetings to better 
accomodate broad participation

Jeanne Invite additional industry/commercial participation in the IG

[1] http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/F2F4
[2] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html
[3] http://www.rhok.org/
[4] http://rewiredstate.org/
[5] http://opengovernmentdata.okfnpad.org/open-development?
[6] http://wiki.okfn.org/OGDCamp_2011_Organizational_Identifiers_Workshop
[7] http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/miscellaneous/URI.shtml
[8] http://opencorporates.com/
[9] http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/File:Open_data_egov_IG_slides.pdf
[10] http://www.w3.org/2011/Talks/TPAC/phila/euwork.html
[11] http://inference-web.org/wiki/Semantic_Water_Quality_Portal
[13] http://www.w3.org/egov/directory/
[14] http://w3techcourses.com/


Phil Archer
W3C eGovernment

Received on Thursday, 10 November 2011 14:56:38 UTC

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