W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-egov-ig@w3.org > June 2009

Re: data.gov.* memo

From: Anne Washington <washingtona@acm.org>
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:47:52 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
To: public-egov-ig@w3.org, "Jose M. Alonso" <josema@w3.org>, "Novak, Kevin" <KevinNovak@aia.org>, "Acar, Suzanne" <Suzanne.Acar@ic.fbi.gov>, daniel@citizencontact.com, jonathan.gray@okfn.org
cc: John.Sheridan@nationalarchives.gov.uk, Anne Washington <washingtona@acm.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0906161325030.932@gateanne>
Digital archival practice recognizes that the person who controls access=20
is not necessary the creator nor the person who holds copyright. We'll=20
have to be clear about these distinctions in any recommendations for=20
data reuse.

The issue of copyright for data.gov needs address the fact that there are=
=20
many types of creators for "government information". Copyright covers who=
=20
created the data but in some cases, the government is just warehousing it,=
=20
or collecting it or mandating it.  This is why it gets tricky with=20
cultural information that is held in trust by a government entity.

Harold Releyea's rubric for different origins of government information is=
=20
quite very useful.
1. created by the government for its own use (i.e. an employee roster or or=
ganization chart)
2. created by the government for exchange with other agencies (Senate=20
data exported to the House)
3. collected by the government (Census data, Library of Congress=20
Manuscripts)
4. created through a government grant (NSF e-science datasets)
5. required reporting or deposit by law (Federal Research Public=20
Access Act mandatory deposit in PubMed)
6. created by the government for public distribution (Federal Register)

    Reference: McClure, Charles R., Hernon, Peter, & Relyea, Harold C.=20
(Eds.). (1989). United States government information policies: Views and=20
perspectives. Norwood, NJ: Ablex. p. 20 ISBN: 0893915637


Finally, we do need to expand our lens wider than U.S. federal=20
information. Creations of the United States Government do not hold=20
copyright within the United States but they do in some cases outside the=20
U.S. In addition, most U.S. states and localities in fact DO copyright=20
their government information.


Anne L. Washington


On Tue, 16 Jun 2009, Jose M. Alonso wrote:

> Taking into account this is an international group and that we need to=20
> accommodate the various data.gov.* (emphasis on the asterisk) (prospectiv=
e)=20
> realities out there, I agree with the original point made by Jonathan:
>
>> I wonder if it would be appropriate to also stipulate that the
>> copyright status and terms and conditions of re-use should be made
>> explicit - so that it is clear what can (and/or can't) be done with
>> the material?
>
>
> Yes, and we might say that we as group believe it should be as open as=20
> possible to foster reuse, but... promoting the idea that it should be fre=
e is=20
> something that previously led us to long discussion when deciding what OG=
D=20
> definition to adopt...
>
> If I got right what Suzanne mentioned, this general statement would be al=
so=20
> applicable to data.gov (where there's already a policy stating it)
>
> -- Jose
>
>
> ps: Spanish constitution was published on the Web with an "all rights=20
> reserved" copyright clause, so we still have some homework to do around=
=20
> here... :(
>
>
> El 16/06/2009, a las 17:16, Novak, Kevin escribi=F3:
>> Suzanne,
>>=20
>> Great points.
>>=20
>> Perhaps the watermarking item from last week=92s DAS discussion is somet=
hing=20
>> that we could aid with.
>>=20
>> Agree that the agencies are doing the review and risk assessments before=
=20
>> releasing. We should note the effort but go forward with the understandi=
ng=20
>> that where data.gov in the US context is concerned that a review has=20
>> occurred.
>>=20
>> Kevin
>>=20
>> Kevin Novak
>> Vice President, Integrated Web Strategy and Technology
>> The American Institute of Architects
>> 1735 New York Avenue, NW
>> Washington, DC 20006
>>=20
>> Voice:   202-626-7303
>> Cell:       202-731-0037
>> Twitter: @novakkevin
>> Fax:        202-639-7606
>> Email:    kevinnovak@aia.org
>> Website: www.aia.org
>>=20
>> <image001.jpg>
>> AIA NAMED BEST ASSOCIATIONS WEBSITE FOR THE 12th ANNUAL WEBBY AWARDS!
>> America's Favorite Architecture Tops the Shortlist for International Hon=
or=20
>> for the Web
>>=20
>> The American Institute of Architects is the voice of the architectural=
=20
>> profession and the resource for its members in service to society.
>>=20
>>=20
>> From: Acar, Suzanne [mailto:Suzanne.Acar@ic.fbi.gov]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:08 AM
>> To: Novak, Kevin; 'daniel@citizencontact.com'; 'jonathan.gray@okfn.org'
>> Cc: 'josema@w3.org'; 'public-egov-ig@w3.org';=20
>> 'John.Sheridan@nationalarchives.gov.uk'
>> Subject: Re: data.gov.* memo
>>=20
>> I agree the issue is complex in general particulalrly for what you=20
>> describe. But isn't part of managing complexity about scoping the challe=
nge=20
>> and organizing into smaller manageable pieces as an attempt to simplify =
as=20
>> a strategy? So, in the case of US Data.gov we're looking at raw data mad=
e=20
>> available for repurposing by any one interterested 'out there'. This dat=
a=20
>> in theory has already gone thru internal screening by all parties inside=
=20
>> the owning government agency required to include their lawyers. There is=
=20
>> another component to data.gov which makes things more intertesting and t=
hat=20
>> is the feature of the government developed and government owned data too=
ls=20
>> made available on data.gov. What are the implications for placing them i=
n=20
>> the public domain and what are the probable outcomes/risks that may requ=
ire=20
>> mitigating? My apologies if my wording is ambiguous - I'm obviously not=
=20
>> good at this type of dialogue... But how else do I learn if I don't try.=
=2E=20
>> Thanks in advance for bearing with me.
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Suzanne
>>=20
>> From: Novak, Kevin <KevinNovak@aia.org>
>> To: Acar, Suzanne; daniel@citizencontact.com <daniel@citizencontact.com>=
;=20
>> jonathan.gray@okfn.org <jonathan.gray@okfn.org>
>> Cc: josema@w3.org <josema@w3.org>; public-egov-ig@w3.org=20
>> <public-egov-ig@w3.org>;=20
>> John.Sheridan@nationalarchives.gov.uk<John.Sheridan@nationalarchives.gov=
=2Euk>
>> Sent: Tue Jun 16 08:57:13 2009
>> Subject: RE: data.gov.* memo
>> All,
>>=20
>> It is a complex issue even for US government. Not so much for the genera=
l=20
>> agencies given Suzanne=92s comments.
>>=20
>> The Library of Congress, Smithsonian, NEH, National Gallery of Art,=20
>> National Park Service and a few others have =93collections=94 of materia=
l that=20
>> have been digitized and made available on the web. Many resulting from=
=20
>> agreements with trustees and custodians that have donated the materials =
to=20
>> the institutions for some level of access. The challenge was and is=20
>> ensuring that the materials are rights protected and it is made clear th=
at=20
>> they do not fall under the normal regulations. Negotiating these agreeme=
nts=20
>> is quite an experience and always challenging when you don=92t have a go=
od=20
>> policy basis to start with. Although this isn=92t specifically a =93data=
=94 issue=20
>> under the current data.gov and UK efforts, it is indeed a growing issue =
for=20
>> agencies dealing with culturally significant materials that aren=92t=20
>> necessarily government produced and the desire to have the materials=20
>> located on government websites.
>>=20
>> Kevin
>>=20
>> Kevin Novak
>> Vice President, Integrated Web Strategy and Technology
>> The American Institute of Architects
>> 1735 New York Avenue, NW
>> Washington, DC 20006
>>=20
>> Voice:   202-626-7303
>> Cell:       202-731-0037
>> Twitter: @novakkevin
>> Fax:        202-639-7606
>> Email:    kevinnovak@aia.org
>> Website: www.aia.org
>>=20
>> <image001.jpg>
>> AIA NAMED BEST ASSOCIATIONS WEBSITE FOR THE 12th ANNUAL WEBBY AWARDS!
>> America's Favorite Architecture Tops the Shortlist for International Hon=
or=20
>> for the Web
>>=20
>> The American Institute of Architects is the voice of the architectural=
=20
>> profession and the resource for its members in service to society.
>>=20
>>=20
>> From: Acar, Suzanne [mailto:Suzanne.Acar@ic.fbi.gov]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:44 AM
>> To: 'daniel@citizencontact.com'; 'jonathan.gray@okfn.org'
>> Cc: 'josema@w3.org'; 'public-egov-ig@w3.org';=20
>> 'John.Sheridan@nationalarchives.gov.uk'; Novak, Kevin
>> Subject: Re: data.gov.* memo
>>=20
>> Very interesting, Daniel. Will take a closer look.
>> Also, thank you Jonathan for the clarifiacation on your statement.
>>=20
>> Cheer
>> Suzanne
>>=20
>> From: Daniel Bennett <daniel@citizencontact.com>
>> To: Jonathan Gray <jonathan.gray@okfn.org>
>> Cc: Acar, Suzanne; josema@w3.org <josema@w3.org>; public-egov-ig@w3.org=
=20
>> <public-egov-ig@w3.org>;John.Sheridan@nationalarchives.gov.uk=20
>> <John.Sheridan@nationalarchives.gov.uk>; kevinnovak@aia.org=20
>> <kevinnovak@aia.org>
>> Sent: Tue Jun 16 08:44:28 2009
>> Subject: Re: data.gov.* memo
>> Awhile ago, when some of the bills were starting to be introduced in XML=
,=20
>> the Congress decided to add in some Dublin Core metadata so that issues=
=20
>> such as rights would be made clear. See below.
>>=20
>> And then there is the presumption that anyone or organization that=20
>> publishes raw data in an open and without real applications is intending=
=20
>> for the data to be either used in place or copied. This is like having a=
n=20
>> RSS newsfeed and then claiming that the RSS newsfeed itself is copyright=
ed.
>>=20
>> And then there is the issue of how data is used on the Internet with sea=
rch=20
>> engines essentially having a complete copy of almost everything internal=
ly=20
>> in order to allow for search.   Hmmmmmm.
>>=20
>> <metadata xmlns:dc=3D"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
>> <dublinCore>
>> <dc:title>111 HR 11 IH: Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of
>> </dc:title>
>> <dc:publisher>U.S. House of Representatives</dc:publisher>
>> <dc:date>2009-01-06</dc:date>
>> <dc:format>text/xml</dc:format>
>> <dc:language>EN</dc:language>
>> <dc:rights>Pursuant to Title 17 Section 105 of the United States Code, t=
his=20
>> file is not subject to copyright protection and is in the public=20
>> domain.</dc:rights>
>> </dublinCore>
>> </metadata>
>> Daniel
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Jonathan Gray wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Acar, Suzanne<Suzanne.Acar@ic.fbi.gov>=
=20
>> wrote:
>>=20
>> US data.gov published a policy statement on the site.  Copyright stateme=
nt=20
>> was not needed because government data once released for sharing is publ=
ic=20
>> domain.
>>=20
>>=20
>> While this is true for US Federal government material - this is
>> unfortunately not so clear outside the US.
>>=20
>> In my experience of looking at the situation with data across Europe,
>> many government sites do not explicitly state what can and can't be
>> re-used. The EU PSI Directive broadly encourages member states to make
>> material available for re-use - but this is still being implemented,
>> and some feel there is ambiguity about its scope and strength. Also
>> its always helpful to know where rights are held by third parties!
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>
>
--139327504-19537-1245174472=:932--
Received on Tuesday, 16 June 2009 19:29:01 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 16 June 2009 19:29:02 GMT