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[minutes] eGov IG call - 15 Oct 2008

From: Jose M. Alonso <josema@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:09:07 +0200
Message-Id: <B44AB8AA-A56E-4F61-885B-A2DF9CAF1278@w3.org>
To: public-egov-ig@w3.org
Cc: John Sheridan <John.Sheridan@nationalarchives.gov.uk>, Kevin Novak <kevinnovak@aia.org>

Hi all,
The draft minutes are posted at:


and attached as text below.

Please, review and provide comments before the weekend when they'll be  
considered final.

Thanks to all who participated in the interesting discussion and also  
thanks to those who sent regrets.

Let's go on with the discussion about use cases framework.

I hope I won't need to scribe the next again though...


Jose M. Alonso <josema@w3.org>    W3C/CTIC
eGovernment Lead                  http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/


W3C eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference

15 Oct 2008

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-irc


           John, Josema, Martin, kevin, Rachel, Owen, Trond, Vagner,
           Oscar, Kjetil, Anne Washignton

           Benjamin, Roberto, Jeff, Pasquale, Vassilios, Ari, Rinke,

           John, Kevin



      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Convene, agenda adjustments
          2. [5]Introductions - new people onboard? (+ appoint a scribe)
          3. [6]Basic IRC recap and a quick play
          4. [7]Review of action items
          5. [8]Preparing for the face to face
          6. [9]Use Case framework
          7. [10]Candidate Use Cases
          8. [11]Next Meeting
      * [12]Summary of Action Items

    <Owen> I have another telecon in a half hour so I won't be able to
    stay long.

    <john> is anyone on the telephone?

Convene, agenda adjustments

    scribe list: [13]http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List]

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List

    john: any agenda adjustments?

    [none heard]

Introductions - new people onboard? (+ appoint a scribe)

    john: we need a scribe, volunteers?

    [long time waiting, nothing heard]

    josema: I'll do it, but we have to stop this!

    martin: dutch government foundation leading with IT implementations
    ... OSS, also participate in IDABC stuff

    [all the rest are known :)]

Basic IRC recap and a quick play


      [14] http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Teleconferences#How-to_join__-_IRC


      [15] http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot

    <Vagner> Vagner, from Brazil, joined

    [jose shows how some basic commands work]

Review of action items


      [16] http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/open

    close ACTION-10

    <trackbot> ACTION-10 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed

    close ACTION-11

    <trackbot> ACTION-11 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed

    [done and in the agenda and list]

Preparing for the face to face

    [john explains the themes sent to the list and how to prepare F2F]

    john: chairs discussed about structure of use cases and number
    ... only one so far; we would like to come up with more
    ... people to submit one case before the F2F and have the F2F agenda
    ... built around those
    ... thoughts?

    -> [17]http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases

    john: volunteers?

    [none heard]

    john: in the post I made on Monday I proposed 10 possible cases
    ... and areas we would need to explore
    ... perhaps we need more
    ... I would expect us to come up with some outlined use cases
    ... changing slightly the topic
    ... why none heard so far?
    ... is that because they would not be useful?

    owen: number of regrets may be because of use cases not that
    ... people busy

    <Owen> I didn't mean to suggest that use cases may not be helpful
    but, merely, that the fact others have not provided any yet is a
    reflection of the fact they are busy. They should contribute
    whatever they can.

    anne: use cases could be very helpful to focus ideas
    ... this is a problem database, but not sure it's obvious
    ... for everybody to volunteer and participate

    john: eg. [18]show us a better way competition in the UK
    ... I already got about 100 use cases from that
    ... amazing work

      [18] http://www.showusabetterway.co.uk/

    [scribe lost a bit here]

    kevin: we should try to concentrate on a small set of cases to show
    the main areas
    ... and we want to achieve

    anne: I think the structure of groups works for me

    john: do you think there are some US gov cases that could fit

    anne: ??

    [john talks about pattern behind the competition...]

    [scribe lost phone connection, hence a couple minutes]

    john: I see people asking for help to each other about taxation in
    ... if we could engage the government there to help them, it'd be
    interesting case to explore

    anne: maybe we just need good stories about why that's happening

    <Owen> The U.S. federal Web Content Managers strategic plan is
    available at [19]http://xml.gov/stratml/WCMstratplan.xml I suppose
    it could be considered to be a set of use cases for the eGov IG.

      [19] http://xml.gov/stratml/WCMstratplan.xml

    kevin: we talked previously about persona-like approach

    anne: makes sense

    rachel: do we want stories of successes or also some that recognize
    we have some work to do?

    kevin: both, gap analysis is also useful to identify what's missing

    rachel: speaking of US executive branch, I think UK is ahead of us
    ... we have good information but not good transformational, it's too
    ... this is a big challenge

    john: I understand some of the good stories will show some issues

Use Case framework

    [john asks for input about F2F, and what we should bring from there]

Candidate Use Cases

    [john reviews "web basics" and ideas sent to the list around use
    cases and framework]

    john: how much effort we should put into the framework and how much
    on "web basics"
    ... keeping in mind money is very short

    anne: first call for me

    vagner: same

    <martinmollema> As this is my first call and as I am muted Iam just

    [some talk about current situation and how it will affect eGov

    owen: is money an issue for us, for this Group?

    anne: we don't need financial resources "per se"
    ... just talking and working and sharing

    john: in terms of sharing it costs nothing
    ... and magical knowledge transfers happen
    ... great in hard times that we'll experience from now and next 2-3
    ... where we need learning to save
    ... my personal view is being able to do lots with little money is a
    great story

    kjetil: somewhat different situation in Norway, we expect to do more
    work for eGov since the state has sufficient money
    ...it has been holding back to not overheat the economy
    ...now that the prices for our services are goind down somewhat
    ...the government may well take advantage of the situation to
    increase public spending

    john: I'm wondering if "can we do more with very little?"
    ... is something we should use as theme?

    anne: I think that "share what we can" is a very important argument

    rachel: I agree

    john: I encourage group members to document a success or a challenge
    and share it with the Group
    ... value for money, web basics and stories/use cases could be the
    main three things to work on
    ... comments?

    [none heard]

    rachel: I would probably add something about "plain language",
    helping people to find what they need
    ... and not use much government technical terms
    ... we have writing standards, peer review, maybe something like
    this could be added

    john: good example
    ... resource discovery is a tricky issue
    ... difference in government and citizen terms to search for

    jose: I could provide an example on that using SW technologies
    ...in fact, it was already published:

      [20] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/CTIC/

    john: recap: use cases around languages, semantics to mediate
    between man in the street and government...
    ... anything else?

    <kjetil> An acquitance of the Computas Semweb group wrote a master's
    thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they
    search for support from the state

    <kjetil> so that they can more easily find what rights they actually
    have, but that is hard to find

    rachel: thanks john for laying out the "straw man" discussion

    <martinmollema> There is a research going on in the netherlands, on
    the search engine for citizens to browse through all different
    government organisations, aiming to provide the correct information.

    <martinmollema> i am muted

    ACTION kjetil to send an email to the people who wrote wrote a
    master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens
    when they search for support from the state

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - Send an email to the people who wrote
    wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support
    citizens when they search for support from the state [on Kjetil
    Kjernsmo - due 2008-10-22].

    martin: project in NL that extends up to 600 organizations
    ... adding semantics so when a person needs to contact a given org
    ... he/she should not worry about who is in charge, but the system
    will help
    ... the citizen to contact the right one within the gov
    ... will ask people in charge

    john: this was a useful conversation
    ... any burning issues left out?
    ... eg: accessibility, should we have a story just about it or
    spread over others?

    <Owen> I need to sign off.

    anne: in some cases, we might want to build on others work

    john: value we can add is contextualizing

    anne: I agree

    john: trust/provenance also an important topic

    rachel: trust issue is a very big one for us
    ... make us nervous about what it will done with the info

    john: I understand... and context is important...
    ... is misuse a big concern of yours?

    rachel: case of purported government info worries me

    kjetil: digital signatures, powerful stuff to avoid these issues

    <john> sorry - holding phone, typing, thinking - its a whole new
    multitasking experience!

    john: recap at the F2F, maybe come up with another couple cases in
    the morning
    ... shape them in the afternoon

Next Meeting

    Next meeting: F2F, then 29 Oct

    john: we have a little bit more clarity for F2F
    ... a couple more areas to work on
    ... and useful conversation today
    ... encourage you to post your thoughts before next week
    ... so we could take up at the F2F


Summary of Action Items

    ACTION-13 - Send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's
    thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they
    search for support from the state [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due

    [End of minutes]

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Received on Thursday, 16 October 2008 11:09:48 UTC

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