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Re: Subsetting BP

From: Annette Greiner <amgreiner@lbl.gov>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:45:38 -0700
To: public-dwbp-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <56F32AA2.1090106@lbl.gov>
I like the idea of a test that updates over time like that. I think a 
goal could be to enable a web app to pull down each bit of data within 
10 seconds on a consumer-level network. Ten seconds is a rule of thumb 
in UX circles for what feels like a reasonable time to wait for an app 
to respond, *if* the user is given an indicator that the app is working. 
That would still make sense over time as networks get faster.

On 3/23/16 3:33 PM, Phil Archer wrote:
> Thanks Eric,
> Newton and Bernadette were able to join us and we had a useful 
> discussion about subsetting. The minutes are at 
> https://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-sdwcov-minutes. My understanding was 
> that, as we discussed in our own call earlier, the difficulty is that 
> it is almost impossible to talk about this in the abstract.
> Jeremy Tandy said: it makes sense to for dwbp to provide some advice 
> -- if
>     you have data that is too big for a web application then
>     providew a mechanism to get hold of bits of it
>     ... eg. using predefined slices or an API
>     ... test by "here is a massive dataset -- can you work with it
>     in a browser app?
> So my understanding - and it is no more than my understanding which 
> may be inaccurate - is that there is agreement on:
> - bulk download is a BP, meaning, you should make all the data 
> available for download, probably not in real time, for local processing.
> - If the dataset is large, it's a good idea to make subsets available, 
> which can be done through an API and/or through defining subsets and 
> giving them identifiers.
> - What that API looks like, or how to construct those URIs is always 
> going to be specific to the dataset.
> What is not clear is whether we can create a genuine BP around this.
> Newton (rightly) asks how you can test it. Jeremy suggested - but it 
> was in the hoof and shouldn't be taken as gospel - that a test might 
> be whether the dataset is processable within a browser. Today's 
> browsers can handle around 40MB without breaking into a sweat - 10 
> years ago, 1 MB might have caused problems, so the test advances with 
> time nicely.
> IMHO, what Annette wrote is right (or very close to it), and the 
> single bus route example is a good one; but I know we haven't reached 
> a consensus view.
> We could readily add in another example and could, perhaps, explicitly 
> talk about spatial coverages, payments data, and statistics as 
> examples of datasets that can be very large but for which many 
> applications only ever want a subset.
> On your question about regular time slots, no, the time is about to 
> change. The switch to DST in the northern hemisphere and away from it 
> in the south means SDW is about to switch time slots. I can advise 
> when the new time has been decided, but it's likely to be between 6 
> and 8 am your time.
> Phil.
> Phil
> On 23/03/2016 21:04, Eric Stephan wrote:
>> Phil,
>> I  just saw this note, thanks for reaching out, it would have been 
>> nice to
>> participate.   If this is a reoccurring meeting time I'd like to
>> participate especially with the DUV activities winding down.
>> Kind regards,
>> Eric S
>> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> wrote:
>>> Just to let DWBP folks know that the Subsetting BP [1] is on the agenda
>>> for one of the Spatial data WG's sub group calls which takes place 
>>> at 20:00
>>> UTC today (13:00 for Annette and Eric, 20:00 UK, 21:00 CET).
>>> I dare say that Bill Roberts, chair of that subgroup, would be happy 
>>> for
>>> anyone in DWBP who wishes to join that call. Details at [2].
>>> Legal disclaimer:
>>> Please note that the SDW WG is run jointly with the OGC and 
>>> therefore the
>>> output will be a joint OGC/W3C specification. In addition to the 
>>> usual W3C
>>> rules, the (almost exactly the same) rules apply for OGC, it's just 
>>> handled
>>> differently, See [3].
>>> Phil.
>>> [1] http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#EnableDataSubsetting
>>> [2] 
>>> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Coverage-Telecon20160323
>>> [3] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
>>> -- 
>>> Phil Archer
>>> W3C Data Activity Lead
>>> http://www.w3.org/2013/data/
>>> http://philarcher.org
>>> +44 (0)7887 767755
>>> @philarcher1

Annette Greiner
NERSC Data and Analytics Services
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
Received on Wednesday, 23 March 2016 23:46:06 UTC

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