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[Minutes] 2016-03-11

From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 17:18:50 +0000
To: Public DWBP WG <public-dwbp-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <56E2FDFA.2050304@w3.org>
The minutes of today's call are at www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes 
and copied as text below.

Looking forward to seeing many of you in Zagreb next week!


       Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

11 Mar 2016

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-irc

Attendees

    Present
           PWinstanley, phila, newton, hadleybeeman, antoine,
           riccardoAlbertoni, ericstephan, deirdrelee, yaso

    Regrets
           Carol, Bernadette, Laufer

    Chair
           Hadley

    Scribe
           annette_g

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Zagreb
      * [5]Summary of Action Items
      * [6]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________


    <hadleybeeman> [7]https://www.w3.org/2016/03/04-dwbp-minutes

       [7] https://www.w3.org/2016/03/04-dwbp-minutes

    PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes

    <hadleybeeman> +1

    <newton> +1

    <antoine> +1

    +1

    <phila> +1

    <ericstephan> +1

    <RiccardoAlbertoni> +1

    RESOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes

    hadleybeeman: first item: closing items before the f2f. We need
    to try and do that by Monday

    <hadleybeeman> html

    <hadleybeeman> [8]http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html

       [8] http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html

    hadleybeeman: BP status review?

    newton: on the status table, we have some BPs that need to be
    done still.
    ... need some input from ericstephan

    ericstephan: BP 30 is done, example and tests

    <ericstephan> is this done now Newton? Or is there anything
    missing from the example I need to include?

    <newton> Best Practice 30: Gather feedback from data consumers

    newton: BP 30 still needs a little more work

    <newton> Best Practice 31: Provide information about feedback

    ericstephan: I provided an example in a google doc for one of
    the editors to include it. I think it's complete.
    ... I thought I provided BP31 also.

    will check

    ericstephan: I'm not sure the status of BP23.

    hadleybeeman: are you the right person to look into that?

    ericstephan: I've been kind of distracted with DUV stuff, could
    use some help from someone else on the example for real-time
    access.

    hadleybeeman: anyone?

    ericstephan: annette_g?

    annette_g: I'm feeling similarly overbooked

    PWinstanley__: I have some data that might work for this, from
    sensors

    ericstephan: one problem I"m having is that there is a BP for
    keeping data up to date already.

    PWinstanley__: I was thinking about river levels, not by the
    microsecond, but every 15 or 20 minutes. I can contact my
    colleagues to find out what the score it.

    <ericstephan> PWinstanley__ thank you!

    <scribe> ACTION: Peter to check on using an example about
    real-time data for BP23 [recorded in
    [9]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action01]

       [9] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-239 - Check on using an example about
    real-time data for bp23 [on Peter Winstanley - due 2016-03-18].

    <hadleybeeman> phila: ericstephan's point about real-time and
    keeping data up to date... they can mean the same thing.

    <hadleybeeman> ...For river levels, real-time can be every 15
    minutes. The frequency is context-dependent.

    <ericstephan> good points phila

    phila: what's real-time depends on the data

    <ericstephan> didn't catch the last part...

    newton: is the real-time data the same as a data stream?

    annette_g: I think it's not necessarily, but it can be

    <ericstephan> streams like twitter feeds?

    hadleybeeman: the "stream" only appears one place in our doc,
    talking about activity streams

    <ericstephan> we could do this in real time

    hadleybeeman: what else?

    newton: BP18 si assigned to Joao Paolo

    he seems to be tied up

    hadleybeeman: can someone else take this on?

    antoine: I was surprised that this was assigned to him. I can
    help, but not before next week.

    newton: what does this do to the discussion next week?

    <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about Joaoa Paulo

    phila: I had an email from Joao Paulo saying he will join for a
    part of the f2f.

    hadleybeeman: we can't really assign to him in absentia

    newton: we can work on it during the f2f. That's better than no
    work on it. Berna and I can help, too.

    antoine: Since I wrote that BP, that's why I was surprised it
    was assigned to him.

    newton: should I change the name on the BP to Antoine?

    hadleybeeman: sure.

    newton: BP 32, enriching data
    ... Adriano and Adriano are assigned to it, but they aren't
    involved lately

    yaso: they agreed that they are not responsible for the BP.
    It's up to the group now.

    I agree with annette_g that it's an important one.

    maybe we should close the action and try to talk about it in
    the f2f.

    hadleybeeman: if we're to keep it as a BP, I'd like to have
    someone on it

    yaso: I"m afraid to take it on and not be able to do it.

    phila: my solution is Occam's razor.

    it would take a significant effort to complete it.

    phila: annette_g seems to be the remaining interested person

    <hadleybeeman> annette_g: I'd rather try to fix it than just
    drop it.

    <ericstephan> It could be picked again in a future community
    group

    annette_g: I'd rather have it on my list than see it dropped

    antoine: I can provide an example for this. I sent my example
    on the chat in a previous meeting, but there was no reaction.
    This may mean we should drop it.

    <antoine> For info this is the example I mentioned:
    [10]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JvjrWMTpMIH7WnuieNqcT0z
    pJAXUPo6x4uMBj1pEx0Y/

      [10] 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JvjrWMTpMIH7WnuieNqcT0zpJAXUPo6x4uMBj1pEx0Y/

    ericstephan: I think the timing is not good. It might not be
    worth it for something that's more a cool idea.

    I'm for dropping it

    hadleybeeman: there is a way for the group to drop it and not
    lose it

    <Zakim> hadleybeeman, you wanted to ask Newton when we need to
    stop accepting new text into the document

    hadleybeeman: newton, when is the cutoff for new items?

    newton: not sure we can add new text even now

    * really???? :(

    hadleybeeman: does it make sense to give annette_g a few days
    to try?

    newton: I need to talk with the other editors

    hadleybeeman: annette_g, are you going to zagreb?

    annette_g: just remotely for a few hours

    hadleybeeman: can you work on it over the weekend

    <scribe> ACTION: Annette to work on the BP for enriching data
    before the f2f [recorded in
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action02]

      [11] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-240 - Work on the bp for enriching
    data before the f2f [on Annette Greiner - due 2016-03-18].

    <newton> @annette_g are you going to improve the Data
    Enrichment section or only in the BP?

    antoine: offers to help if needed as well.

    annette_g: I think just the one BP

    <newton> BP 22: Serving data and resources with different
    formats

    newton: BP 22, serving data with different formats

    <phila> - [12]http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#Conneg BP 22

      [12] http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#Conneg

    <newton> [13]http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#Conneg

      [13] http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#Conneg

    hadleybeeman: I can take it.

    <scribe> ACTION: Hadley to review BP 22 [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action03]

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-241 - Review bp 22 [on Hadley Beeman
    - due 2016-03-18].

    <newton>
    [15]https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/F2F_Zagreb_-_Agenda_Propo
    sal_DWBP

      [15] 
https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/F2F_Zagreb_-_Agenda_Proposal_DWBP

    newton: back to the table. If you have red around your name in
    it, you need to complete that action.

    <deirdrelee> will do!

    <deirdrelee> def finished by monday

    <ericstephan> Or Sunday midnight here

    newton: phila, can we close 94?

    phila: yes

    <newton> Close this issue. The group agrees that we shouldn't
    recommend specific tools in our BP. Maybe we can include an
    example about using git for dataset versioning. Should we
    include the example?

    hadleybeeman: we nee to answer the question about whether to
    avoid specific technologies

    phila: in the implementation section?

    hadleybeeman: see issue 94

    <phila> issue-94?

    <trackbot> issue-94 -- Dataset versioning and dataset
    replication -- open

    <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/94

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/94

    PWinstanley: an issue with versioning is whether you're doing
    versioning with diffs or with complete sets. we can point to
    using something like Git as an approach to the latter.

    hadleybeeman: we need to get some language

    PWinstanley: In the various approaches toward versioning
    systems, there are certain general principles and ways in which
    you can overcome issues like forking and merging.
    ... presumably we can come up with something that deals with
    that

    phila: this was first raised on the use cases doc

    hadleybeeman: does any part of this need to be settled for the
    BP doc?

    newton: I don't think so.

    <phila> close issue-94

    <trackbot> Closed issue-94.

    hadleybeeman: Let's just close it

    <ericstephan> [17]https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/148
    close

      [17] https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/148

    hadleybeeman: issue 148. ericstephan can we close it?

    ericstephan: yes

    <phila> close issue-148

    <trackbot> Closed issue-148.

    issue 220 was bernadette's and she wants to close it

    <phila> issue-220?

    <trackbot> issue-220 -- Should we include a more complexe
    example to illustrate provenance? -- open

    <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/220

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/220

    <ericstephan> I am having troubles hearing

    newton: I can create an action on myself to put in the example
    that Antoine suggested

    from issue 220

    <phila> close issue-228

    <trackbot> Closed issue-228.

    <phila> close issue-220

    <trackbot> Closed issue-220.

    <scribe> ACTION: Newton to follow up on issue 220 [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action04]

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-242 - Follow up on issue 220 [on
    Newton Calegari - due 2016-03-18].

    hadleybeeman: we closed 228

    232 is done

    <phila> close issue-232

    <trackbot> Closed issue-232.

    hadleybeeman: issue 149 is yours

    <deirdrelee> yes

    <phila> close issue-149

    <trackbot> Closed issue-149.

    <phila> issue-160?

    <trackbot> issue-160 -- Should we add at BP about subsetting
    data? -- open

    <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/160

      [20] http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/160

    <phila> Hmmm... big issue

    <hadleybeeman> annette: I feel like we have it covered by
    having APIs... but if you're posting data outside of that, as a
    blob, maybe there is value in giving people accesss to
    fragments

    <ericstephan> It is huge

    <hadleybeeman> hadley: this is less of an challenge in linked
    data -- but we're talking about more than just that.

    <ericstephan> Its really hard if you don't have a specific
    domain in mind

    <hadleybeeman> phila: this is coming up in spatial data on the
    web

    <hadleybeeman> ... My Occam's razor approach is to say the
    group recognises it's really important. Maybe mention it
    somewhere?

    <PWinstanley> isn't data cube vocab an approach?

    <hadleybeeman> ...But to be practical, we could hand it to sdw

    <hadleybeeman> annette_g: Is is specifically spatila

    <hadleybeeman> phila: no

    <hadleybeeman> PWinstanley: Data cube slices fit in here too.

    <ericstephan> if there is momentum in the spatial data then we
    might be able to grow something from there. We are dealing with
    subsetting on the temporal level

    <hadleybeeman> phila: in spatial data, a slice isn't enough

    <hadleybeeman> PWinstanley: We could have some simplistic cases
    that are widely used

    <hadleybeeman> ...How you push data into a leaflet map ...
    critical for sortgin out good practice

    <hadleybeeman> antoine: I'm not sure data cube slices sort the
    problem. they can exist in one dataset.

    <ericstephan> subsetting a graph (subgraph) another issue,
    mathematical forests (trees of data another)

    <hadleybeeman> ...Also, if it's an important issue, I think we
    should have a BP. Perhaps make it super simple, saying
    different domains have different criteria for subsetting;

    <hadleybeeman> ...point to sdw for a specific example

    <hadleybeeman> ericstephan: I'm concerned that if we don't have
    a really good approach, it may not have an impact.

    <hadleybeeman> ...Maybe we should think about it more broadly
    in the future? I'm sceptical that it won't have much impact.

    <hadleybeeman> phila: we could have an entire doc about this

    <hadleybeeman> ...slicing isn't engouh; you also need to dice
    it

    <hadleybeeman> ...You also need to think re page media

    <hadleybeeman> ...In the spatial world, that could give you a
    number of tiles back.

    <hadleybeeman> ...It could reduce the granularity of the data
    until it fitted... There are a lot of options here.

    <hadleybeeman> ...I'm looking for something realistic we could
    say.

    <hadleybeeman> ...Other groups have finished with a wishlist;
    CSV on the Web has set up a community group...

    <hadleybeeman> ...This is a substantial topic in its own right.

    <hadleybeeman> ...If we can say something substantial, we
    should -- but if not, we can do other things.

    <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about CGs, wish lists, next
    steps

    <ericstephan> Something that needs to be considered as well is
    the impact on the implementation report

    antoine: I think we can still have an impact if we simply say
    that it's helpful to provide subsets
    ... if we just say something simple, that could bring a useful
    message.

    hadleybeeman: we need to wrap this up.

    who can take this forward?

    <ericstephan> The only part might be to think of datasets and
    distributions. Thats the only thing that comes to mind

    hadleybeeman: is there someone who wants to write now?

    <ericstephan> address later

    annette_g: I'd like to give it a try

    hadleybeeman: something more for your weekend

    also think about what could be left as future work

    <phila> [21]Zagreb agenda

      [21] https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/ZagrebF2F#Agenda

Zagreb

    hadleybeeman: last issue, during the f2f, we have times when
    we're just talking about BP. Do vocab editors want to do
    breakouts at those times?
    ... monday morning in particular

    <RiccardoAlbertoni> +1 to break on monday morning

    phila: thinking about Antoine in particular

    <ericstephan> my concern is that Berna is going to be in the BP
    discussions, and Sumit won't be attending

    antoine: I'm behind it

    <ericstephan> from the DUV perspective

    hadleybeeman: eric, that puts it in the middle of the night for
    you

    ericstephan: crazy as it sounds, I still want to attend
    remotely
    ... not sure how much sense it makes to have overlap

    might work for DQV more than DUV

    <ericstephan> thank you and safe travels all

    hadleybeeman: sounds like we should have DUV folks in with BP
    people and DQV separate

    <deirdrelee> thanks hadleybeeman !

    <newton> bye! thanks

    <deirdrelee> see you all next week

    <newton> see you on monday

    <RiccardoAlbertoni> bye all!

    *bye!

    <yaso> thank you, Hadley! and tks annette_g ! Bye all

    <newton> or maybe sunday

    <hadleybeeman> bye all!

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Annette to work on the BP for enriching data
    before the f2f [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Hadley to review BP 22 [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Newton to follow up on issue 220 [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Peter to check on using an example about
    real-time data for BP23 [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action01]

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action02
      [23] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action03
      [24] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action04
      [25] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/11-dwbp-minutes.html#action01

Summary of Resolutions

     1. [26]Accept last week's minutes

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________
Received on Friday, 11 March 2016 17:18:37 UTC

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