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Re: Webby Data

From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 11:40:19 +0100
To: Erik Wilde <dret@berkeley.edu>, public-dwbp-comments@w3.org
Cc: "Tandy, Jeremy" <jeremy.tandy@metoffice.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <5618EB13.5070801@w3.org>
Moving to public comments list so Jeremy can post.

On 09/10/2015 22:53, Erik Wilde wrote:
> hello phil.
>
> thanks a lot for getting the discussion about "web data" going (again).
> we're probably getting closer, but i think we still have a bit of a
> difference in perspective, because "webby data" is a necessary but not
> sufficient condition to have hypermedia.

True. But I don't think we're trying to define hypermedia any more than 
we're trying to define Linked Data. So for me, if we've met the 
necessary part, that's good. It's because we clearly weren't doing that 
that there has been a problem.


>
> the difference is that hypermedia is not (only) about linking data
> (i.e., using "web data"), it's also about providing navigational
> affordances to get things done with that data. this means that the links
> are about *services* (or whatever you might call this).

Yes, OK, I can add a line about that.

>
> as an example, if you have a dataset, there may be a link in it telling
> you where you can submit a bug report, if you think you found an error
> in it. that link is not between *data*, instead it is a navigational aid
> that allows somebody working with that data to submit a bug report (in
> the very same way as github and others allow you to create issues).

Ack.

>
> how/if such a reported bug actually affects the data (there may be some
> review process before any action is taken, and some bug reports may get
> rejected as part of this process) is hidden from the hypermedia view,
> and that's how it should be. all that matters for the client is that if
> it knows the "issue bug report here" link (i.e., it understands the link
> relation that qualifies that link), and understands the media type
> expected by the "reporting URI", then it can submit a bug report.
>
> is that explanation good enough to explain the difference between "web
> data only" and the "web of hypermedia-driven services" that is happening
> on the regular web, and we also need to have for machine-oriented
> interactions?

OK, so how about this (which I've included now in my proposed changes at 
[1].

"These ideas are at the heart of the 5 Stars of Linked Data where one 
data point links to another, and of Hypermedia where links may be to 
further data or to services (or more generally 'affordances') that act 
on or relate to the data in some way. Examples include a bug reporting 
mechanisms, processors, a visualization engine, a sensor, an actuator 
etc. In both Linked Data and Hypermedia, the emphasis is put on the 
ability for machines to traverse from one resource to another following 
links that express relationships."


>
> On 2015-10-09 11:28, Phil Archer wrote:
>> We had a BP that said "use persistent URIs as identifiers". And then  it
>> said *Datasets* must be identified by persistent URIs. What it didn't
>> say was that data points within the data should also be URIs where
>> possible.
>
> like i said above, i think talking about "web data" would be a great
> first step (and thus i am very much in favor of it), but it's not the
> full hypermedia story, which is *not just* about data.
>
>> @Erik - is that doc going to stay on GitHub? Any chance it might find a
>> more stable/permanent home? I really don't like linking to GH in a W3C
>> Rec track document.
>
> i'd be more than happy to (a) move this to some other place, and/or (b)
> work on it to make it a bit easier to understand, or maybe add more
> examples. i am open for suggestions what might be a better home for it.
> for now i thought that maybe github is not such a bad place, at least as
> long as this is mostly intended to be a starting point for a discussion
> around "web data" in general.

How about a Member Submission??

Phil.

[1] http://philarcher1.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#identifiersWithinDatasets




>
> thanks a lot and cheers,
>
> dret.
>

-- 


Phil Archer
W3C Data Activity Lead
http://www.w3.org/2013/data/

http://philarcher.org
+44 (0)7887 767755
@philarcher1
Received on Saturday, 10 October 2015 10:40:28 UTC

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