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RE: doc-pullquote

From: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 15:11:02 -0400
To: "'Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken'" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, <jcraig@apple.com>, "'Joanmarie Diggs'" <jdiggs@igalia.com>
Cc: "'Rich Schwerdtfeger'" <richschwer@gmail.com>, "'Alexander Surkov'" <asurkov@mozilla.com>, "'Bogdan Brinza'" <bbrinza@microsoft.com>, "'DPUB-ARIA'" <public-dpub-aria@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00be01d23085$dc3992f0$94acb8d0$@gmail.com>
The only thing that worries me is how pullquotes might be done in the
future. If they were achievable through css generated content, for example,
would the author identify the quote inline and the duplicate presentation
would happen through some other display element that would be aria-hidden?
Similarly, they could be done with javascript even now, as it's more in the
stunted world of epub rendering that that's not currently viable.

It's an argument for placing the hiding on the author, as it could have
unintended consequences across all web content.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken [mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com] 
Sent: October 27, 2016 1:17 PM
To: jcraig@apple.com; Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
Cc: Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>; Alexander Surkov
<asurkov@mozilla.com>; Bogdan Brinza <bbrinza@microsoft.com>; DPUB-ARIA
(public-dpub-aria@w3.org) <public-dpub-aria@w3.org>
Subject: RE: doc-pullquote

The reason we have suggested that pullquotes be hidden in some way is that
they duplicate content. 

James, based on discussions with users of AT, we concluded that most will
find pullquotes irritating and/or confusing because they duplicate existing
content. So, they might provide emphasis, but we'd like the default for AT
to be not displayed. How can we make that work?   

Tzviya Siegman
Information Standards Lead
Wiley
201-748-6884
tsiegman@wiley.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: jcraig@apple.com [mailto:jcraig@apple.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:57 PM
To: Joanmarie Diggs
Cc: Rich Schwerdtfeger; Alexander Surkov; Bogdan Brinza; Siegman, Tzviya -
Hoboken; DPUB-ARIA (public-dpub-aria@w3.org)
Subject: Re: doc-pullquote

Sometimes they aren't purely decorative. At a minimum, they provide
emphasis. Arguably, they could be navigable, too. Similar to headings or
images, but probably not recommended to subclass landmarks.

> On Oct 27, 2016, at 9:17 AM, Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com> wrote:
> 
> But my understanding is that pullquotes are purely decorative and ATs 
> shouldn't double present them. Native host language semantics won't 
> necessarily buy us that, right?
> 
> --joanie
> 
> On 10/27/2016 12:05 PM, Rich Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>> Not mapped only means that the element is not mapped. Hidden should 
>> apply to the element and its subtree unless a descendant is 
>> overridden by the element. So, I think a better solution would be to 
>> not to expose the role at all and allow it to default to the native 
>> host language semantics. In this case it does not matter whether it has
focus or not.
>> 
>> In fact, I think it would be best to state that in the mapping spec.
>> that defines what it means to not be mapped. We should say that it 
>> defaults to the native host language semantics and the ARIA role is 
>> not exposed.
>> 
>> Would this not be a better approach?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 27, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Surkov <asurkov@mozilla.com 
>>> <mailto:asurkov@mozilla.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thinking more, aria-hidden='true' might be not that bad, even with 
>>> its ambiguity of the usage and implementations in the browsers. If 
>>> you say 'not mapped', then I think you should say if this is applied 
>>> to elements from its subtree, also you may need to clarify the edge 
>>> cases, for example, what happens, if the focus goes into 'pullquote'
>>> element.
>>> 
>>> Having said I would probably prefer if that was the author's 
>>> responsibility to hide the element from AT, either by moving it 
>>> offscreen or putting aria-hidden='true' on it.
>>> 
>>> Also I don't quire understand why would we need to have 'pullquote'
>>> role in the first place. If pullquote doesn't have semantics, then 
>>> it doesn't seem worthwhile to have ARIA role for it.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> Alexander.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 9:34 AM, Rich Schwerdtfeger 
>>> <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Based on this discussion:
>>>> 
>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpub-aria/2016Oct/0029.
>>>> html
>>>> 
>>>> I want to change the dpub-aam mapping to not mapped for all 
>>>> platforms. That includes (not xml-roles values for linux and 
>>>> Windows IA2 mappings).
>>>> It means
>>>> that the Mac mapping would go form group to not mapped.
>>>> 
>>>> Any disagreement?
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Rich
>>>> 
>>>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 27 October 2016 19:11:34 UTC

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