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[Minutes] 2014-09-22 Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 18:16:17 +0200
Message-ID: <54204B51.7070703@w3.org>
To: W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Hi all,

The minutes of the Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference 
dated 2014-09-22 are now available at


These public minutes are also linked from the dpub wiki

Also find these minutes in a text version following, for your convenience.


Thierry Michel



       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

             Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

22 Sep 2014



    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-dpub-irc


           Frederick Hirsh (fjh),Charles LaPierre (clapierre), Dave
           Cramer (dauwhe),Brady Duga (duga), Deborah Kaplan
           (dkaplan3), Phil Madans (philm), Tzviya Siegman
           (Tzviya), Tim Cole (TimCole), Rob Sanderson (azaroth),
           Peter Kreutzberger (pkra), Laura Fowler, Bill Kasdorf
           (Bill_Kasdorf), Liza Daly (liza), Thierry Michel
           (tmichel), David Stroup (david_stroup), Ben De Meester
           (bjdmeest),  Ivan Herman (Ivan), Liam Quin (liam), Alan
           Stearns (Stearns), Peter Linss (plinss) Markus Gylling

    Regrets: none.
           Tzviya Siegman

           Frederick Hirsh


      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Minutes review
          2. [6]Changes at Dom level for Pagination
          3. [7]Pagination - layout & markup update
          4. [8]Other Business
          5. [9]Adjourn
      * [10]Summary of Action Items

    <trackbot> Date: 22 September 2014

    <pkra> should we be worried?

    <david_stroup> 585.217

    <tmichel> who is P13 and P14

    <scribe> ScribeNick: fjh

    <tzviya> [11]http://www.w3.org/2014/09/15-dpub-minutes.html

      [11] http://www.w3.org/2014/09/15-dpub-minutes.html

Minutes review

    no comments

    minutes approved

Changes at Dom level for Pagination

    brady: use cases have been on list for while, one use case is

    … useful for content creators

    <tzviya> use cases:


    … implementers, e.g creating ebook reader, no idea how to enter
    paginated mode

    … turn pages, note visible pages, select text across pages. no
    apis exist

    … often use internal APIs, webkit has some, CSS hacks like
    using columns or frames/Javascript

    … doesn’t work with fancy page styling, semantics that it is a
    page is lost

    <Julie> Julie Morris at 646 n umber

    … cannot use private port of webkit in ebook readers ?

    … need to be able to state it is a book with pages

    … listed many use cases

    … this is summary of problem, need public API for handling
    pagination, details not clear yet

    … need to understand a design, then API for control

    … DOM should be able to handle pages, possible extensions

    Zakim: q?

    dauwhe: discussed at CSS F2F a few weeks ago, peter linss
    co-chair and tag member

    … box tree api

    … separate from DOM, could navigate, all pagination defined

    … deprecate geometry apis in DOM and move to box tree api

    … seems good

    brady_duga: is this a DOM for boxes?

    <tzviya> s/???/brady

    dauwhe: can move around boxes and deal with them, especially
    element fragmentation across boxes
    ... or pages

    <Luc> mute me

    <Bill_Kasdorf> The people who are working on overlapping
    structures may be able to make some useful contributions to
    this issue

    ivan: if this CSS work really happens then really need to be
    involved in this
    ... how does current API work when some tries to re-paginate

    <david_stroup> [13]https://www.npmjs.org/package/boxtree

      [13] https://www.npmjs.org/package/boxtree

    ivan: re annotation, what is the anchor that is used for an
    annotation for a page?

    <Luc> 60#

    <Luc> 61#

    brady_duga: depends on implementation

    dauwhe: depends on the implementation

    … find known anchor elements

    … some are more fragile than others

    s;dauwhe: depends; brady_duga: depends/

    … re pagination, depends, webkit just reload document, using
    printing architecture

    … with columns, re-flow

    … re-pagination means starting over

    … what was behind the question?

    ivan: just wnated to clarify

    brady_duga: tricks to start re=paginating from current page,
    but earlier pages might start at strange locations

    ivan: webit has API but other tools also have APIs, are these
    other APIs public or private?

    brady_duga: haven’t looked, but there are browser demos

    … use different mechanisms, details not clear

    … issue of native code

    ivan: this group cannot decide what is in the DOM, but could
    list solutions that are public with pros/cons

    … realistic

    brady_duga: not clear, have looked at WebKit one

    … other approaches are mostly browser hacks or custom ports


      [14] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-overflow-3/#paginated-overflow

    fjh: maybe a task force is appropriate for box tree work, to
    include annotations or dpub, depends on chartering

    dauwhe: have posted on how to handle overflow, see link above

    tzviya: print and page are different

    … could also talk about other non-scrolling views

    <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to "non-scrolling view" instead of "pages"

    … next step, think how we might work with CSS group on box tree

    <tzviya> action @brady_duga draft basic needs of pagination API

    <trackbot> Error finding '@brady_duga'. You can review and
    register nicknames at

      [15] http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users%3E.

    ivan: use dpub pagination repository

    <tzviya> action duga draft basic needs of pagination API

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Draft basic needs of pagination
    api [on Brady Duga - due 2014-09-29].

    brady: box tree in CSS WG or where?

    dauwhe: peter linss is driving this, figuring out context,
    suggested joint TAG CSS work

    brady: we might want to do something at TPAC as a joint session

    <azaroth> +1 to joint TPAC session

    tzviya: brady, will you be at tpac?

    brady: yes

    <tzviya> action tzviya plan CSS + pagination API meeting

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Plan css + pagination api
    meeting [on Tzviya Siegman - due 2014-09-29].

    <clapierre> I just registered with no problems and paid ;)

    tzviya: other comments


Pagination - layout & markup update

    dauwhe: request new publication location for WD

    … some think latinreq since not updated since march, obbiously
    not familiar with w3c time scales

    … added use case where text moves from 1 column into multiple

    … common design, hard to do in CSS

    ivan: no problem, can update WD

    … watch out for moratium for TPAC

    <liam> [moratorium on publishing - 24 October through 3
    November ]

    two publishing moratorium later this year:

    * 24 October through 3 November during TPAC 2014 [1]


    * 19 December through 5 January 2015


      [16] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2014AprJun/0134.html

    <tzviya> action tmichel publish updated version of latinreq
    with Dave

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Publish updated version of
    latinreq with dave [on Thierry Michel - due 2014-09-29].

    discussion of when to publish

    dave: plan to publish next Tue, 30 Sept
    ... will prepare draft

    … have to deal with table cells and some other items, but need
    to ask what might be missing or where more work is needed, so
    good to publish

    tzviya: stem section needs more work

    … want tables that align on a character, such as for accounting

    … align on equals sign (??)

    … everyone that speciallizes in areas should take a look and
    see what they can add or update

    … I’ve been working on pagination when customers try to print

    … need some chemistry examples

    … physics, math

    <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to vertical alignment on an arbitrary
    character that needs to be specified--common examples: . ) + =

    … even scrreen captures would help, Dave can then respond

    call for volunteers met with silence

    dave: it would even help more if I can use some of the
    documents themselves, realize it might be an issue

    pkra: MathML specification has some examples

    … such features make it hard to implement MathML, solution here
    might help

    tzviya: exactly the sort of thing we are looking for

    dave: right

Other Business

    brady: CSS meets Thur, dpub Thur/Fri, why not schedule joint
    meeting on Thur

    tzviya: will be looking at this tomorrow

    ivan: scheduling might be a challenge, many joint meetings

    dave: TPAC includes time every day for ad hoc meetings, does it
    not? could this be used?

    ivan: schedule depends on WGs, some don’t observe those slots
    ... if you have info on when CSS group might have slots that
    would help


    <azaroth> Bye all

    <pkra> bye.

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]

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