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Re: May be a relevant discussion for eBooks: 'zip archives as first class citizens'

From: Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 10:23:57 -0600
Message-ID: <CABevsUGGqLEOqQAcd9wYxDpUvCxu7ehEriUTmrS+hPDT0rXrcA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Brady Duga <duga@google.com>
Cc: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Robin Berjon <robin@w3.org>, W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Hi Brady,

What, speaking for the Open Annotation group, would be great is if there
was one accepted method for identifying segments of resources, regardless
of whether they're embedded in a zip/EPUB or live on the web.

So to select a rectangular region of an image in an EPUB, a client would
use the media fragment structure in the same way that it would if the image
was on the web.  Ditto for the other fragment specifications.  I do
understand that this can be done in CFI using a range of two spatial
offsets, and also for video with the temporal-spatial offset mechanism...
which leads to my concern that if there is a W3C way of identifying a
resource within a zip file, there are now two equally valid mechanisms that
would both need to be supported.


And to answer the question about text selection, if there isn't a way to
use a fragment (eg for HTML) then we have two methods: a Quotation based
selector, and a Offset based selector.
Details at:
    http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/specific.html#RangeSelectors

Thanks!

Rob



On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Brady Duga <duga@google.com> wrote:

> Fragment ids can be used in EPUB CFI as a check mechanism. So, a path can
> (and should) include any ids of elements in the path. These can be used to
> attempt correction of the CFI if the data changes. I am not sure how
> fragment ids would be used generically for annotations, since they rely on
> authors marking all elements with ids. I also don't know how you identify
> ranges of text that way, though perhaps a mechanism exists.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> I guess, as far as this IG is concerned, we can/should restrict ourselves
>> to eBooks, more precisely ePub. In the case of an ePub, the EPUB CFI
>> specification:
>>
>> http://www.idpf.org/epub/linking/cfi/epub-cfi.html
>>
>> becomes part of the picture... I am not sure it answers to your
>> requirements, though, because I am not sure whether the existing fragment
>> id-s (in HTML or in SVG) can be combined easily...
>>
>> I guess Brady can help us out for this.
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2013, at 18:34 , Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks Ivan, Robin!
>> >
>> > Some ideas towards requirements from the annotation perspective:
>> >
>> > * Resource-in-Zip (RiZ) should be able to be annotated given the RiZ
>> URL.
>> >  -- anno hasTarget foo.epub%!/foo.jpg
>> >
>> > * A fragment of the RiZ should be able to be annotated, using existing
>> fragment specs for interoperability
>> >   -- anno hasTarget foo.epub%!/foo.jpg#xywh=100,100,20,20
>> >
>> > * ... without using the media fragment "extension" mechanism so that
>> HTML fragments can be used
>> >  -- anno hasTarget foo.epub%!/foo.html#para1
>> >
>> > * Extension ".zip" cannot be required for the encapsulating zip file
>> >   -- anno hasTarget foo.__epub__%!/foo.jpg
>> >
>> > * ... or nested zips as RiZ, if that is supported:
>> >  -- anno hasTarget foo.epub%!/chapters/chap1.epub%!/foo.jpg
>> >
>> > * Relative URLs should work to allow embedding annotations within the
>> zip file and have them move around correctly without always referring back
>> to the original copy of the epub, which might change or no longer exist.
>> >   -- eg:
>> >
>> > <%!/annotations/anno1.ttl> a oa:Annotation ;
>> >   oa:hasBody <%!/annotations/bodies/comment1.txt> ;
>> >   oa:hasTarget <%!/foo.jpg#xywh=100,100,20,20> ;
>> >   oa:hasMotivation oa:commenting .
>> >
>> > * Clearly we need to make RDF assertions about resources inside zips
>> for any of these to work correctly.
>> >
>> > Is it worth adding as a discussion item for tomorrow's call?
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Rob
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Robin Berjon <robin@w3.org> wrote:
>> > On 11/09/2013 10:41 , Ivan Herman wrote:
>> > There is a discussion going on the whatwg mailing list:
>> >
>> >
>> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2013-August/040599.html
>> >
>> >  on whether URI-s should be defined to address zip archives on the
>> > Web. There has been some remarks about why this would be interesting
>> > and the arguments seem to forget that, in fact, ePub files are also
>> > zip archives.
>> >
>> > Yes, I'm still mulling over that thread and might jump in at some point.
>> >
>> >
>> > I am not sure this is relevant for this IG, and those of you who may
>> > be closer to the issues might want to have a look. It may be relevant
>> > for epub-reader-in-a-browser type implementations...
>> >
>> > I think that this is a key component in bringing browsers and epub
>> closer to forming one web, a goal that I think it pretty relevant :)
>> >
>> > --
>> > Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/ - @robinberjon
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> mobile: +31-641044153
>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Tuesday, 17 September 2013 16:24:25 UTC

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