# Device APIs Working Group Teleconference

## 03 Jul 2013

[Agenda][3]

See also: [IRC log][4]

## Attendees

Present

    Frederick_Hirsch, Diana_Cheng, Anssi_Kostiainen, Giri_Mandyam, Josh_Soref,
Dominique_Hazael-Massieux, Milan_Patel

Regrets


Chair

    Frederick_Hirsch

Scribe

    Josh_Soref

## Contents

  * [Topics][5]

    1. [Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements][6]

    2. [Minutes approval][7]

    3. [Vibration LC][8]

    4. [DAP Charter][9]

    5. [Network Discovery][10]

    6. [Proximity, Light][11]

    7. [Test suite migration to git][12]

    8. [Implementation status][13]

    9. [Action Review][14]

    10. [Other Business][15]

    11. [Adjourn][16]

  * [Summary of Action Items][17]

* * *

<trackbot> Date: 03 July 2013

### Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements

<scribe> scribeNick: fjh

fjh: "MediaStream Image Capture" CfC concluded with no objection to FPWD
publication, [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0018.html][18]

dom: planned for 9 july publication

fjh: 31 July teleconference cancelled (chair not available)

### Minutes approval

Approve minutes from 5 June 2013

[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/att-0016/minutes-2013-06-05.html][19]

<dom> (Regrets from me on July 17, 24)

**RESOLUTION: Minutes from 5 June 2013 are approved**

### Vibration LC

LC (23 May - 13 June), [http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-vibration-20130523/][20]

Disposition of comments, [https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696
/WD-vibration-20130523/doc/][21]

Clarification of Introduction (6 Jun) [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public
/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0010.html][22]

Revision of processing steps (12 Jun) [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public
/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0014.html][23]

<dom> (definitely)

<Josh_Soref> scribe: Josh_Soref

<fjh> fjh: next step should be CR transition, awaiting confirmation to close
LC comment

fjh: i'd like to go to CR ASAP

... if i hear nothing within two weeks, i'll close this DoC comment out

... i don't think there's a rush here

... testcases can go on

... comments anssik ?

anssik: no comments/concerns

... you covered the changes

fjh: dom, do we need to do any special stuff? we've been to CR before

dom: we need a Transition Request

... but i don't think we need a Transition Call

<fjh> **ACTION:** fjh to send Vibration CR CfC and make transition request
once LC disposition complete [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-
minutes.html#action01][24]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-639 - Send Vibration CR CfC and make transition
request once LC disposition complete [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-07-10].

dom: once there Request is drafted, i can work with you on making it clear
that we don't need a call as such

### DAP Charter

<fjh> [http://www.w3.org/2011/07/DeviceAPICharter][25]

fjh: i don't think it's been extended yet

dom: it's in process

... if all goes as planned, i think we'll get the extension next week

### Network Discovery

<fjh> Simplification proposal: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2013Jun/0015.html][26] (Jean-Claude)

<fjh> Open Source implementation: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-
device-apis/2013Jun/0009.html][27] (Jean-Claude)

<fjh> Earlier comments and issues, status:
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0028.html][28]

gmandyam: the two independent implementations is an unwritten rule

... we had Opera under its old engine do an implementation

... and we have jcd doing an implementation

... do we need a Firefox/similar implementation?

fjh: i think we have two

dom: my recollection was that we agreed that for recommendations targeted at
browsers

... we wanted implementations in major shipping browsers

Josh_Soref: +1

fjh: thank you dom for remembering that

... but i think we should be appreciative of jcd's work

### Proximity, Light

<fjh> Single interface to expose both state and value: -
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0008.html][29]

<fjh> proposal - CfC to accept Anssi's proposed resolution?
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0043.html][30]

fjh: i'm wondering...

... should i send a CfC to accept anssik 's proposed resolution?

... what are we waiting for?

... anssik what do you suggest at this point?

anssik: i haven't talked w/ dougt about this

... i noticed that Firefox 22 shipped an api for ambient light (in Lux)

... on OS X

<anssik> [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/API/DeviceLightEvent][31]

anssik: it's something shipping in the desktop firefox which has significant
marketshare

... so that means we keep the DeviceLight interface intact

... and probably merge the other interface with that one

fjh: it's not necessary

<dom> (well, if it's only on MacOS X, I'm not sure it's such a big market
share)

fjh: we could keep our current design

anssik: if we keep our current interface, it's what's shipping in Desktop in
OS X

... the suggestion initially by anne was to merge Light-Level with that
Interface

... i think we're still on track

fjh: is this a matter of taste, or efficiency?

... is there a reason to make a change whatsoever?

anssik: it's a matter of API design

... developer ergonomics

... and a bit of taste

<anssik> [http://anssiko.github.io/light/][32]

anssik: i wanted to test this out

... if you have Firefox 22+ on OS X, you can try the demo

... i noticed that the light level doesn't expose dim-normal-bright

<anssik> [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=842952][33]

anssik: the guy who was supposed to work on merging the interfaces in terms of
implementation

... said he changed jobs and can't work on this

... so it would take a while for mozilla to get to this

fjh: if we don't merge, isn't Firefox closer to what we have now?

anssik: what Firefox implements is just part of the spec

... there's still a migration path

... we could still merge the interfaces and the implementation would be
compliant

fjh: so, i sense that making your proposed change would be premature

anssik: it would be good to give Mozilla a bit more time

... and i'd be happy to hear developer feedback

... now that the device-light-event part is available to developers

... Firefox for OS X might be on millions of computers

... this is also shipping in Firefox OS

<fjh> [http://www.w3.org/Privacy/][34]

anssik: and Firefox on Android

... and it was recently enabled on Firefox desktop on OS X

... because you need platform adaptation, on desktops this is currently only
on OS X

<anssik> impl status: [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/API/DeviceLightEvent#Gecko-specific_notes][35]

fjh: Another reason to give this time is I anticipate additional feedback from
the PING, privacy interest group, on these specs

... also have messages from Nick and Rigo

<fjh> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0046.html][36]

<fjh> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0012.html][37]

anssik: it sounds reasonable to wait

... and collecting input from PING

<fjh> **ACTION:** fjh to respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy concerns in
Proximity, Light [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-
minutes.html#action02][38]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-640 - Respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy concerns
in Proximity, Light [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-07-10].

<fjh> ACTION-640: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0046.html][36]

<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-640 Respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy
concerns in Proximity, Light.

<fjh> ACTION-640: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0012.html][37]

<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-640 Respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy
concerns in Proximity, Light.

### Test suite migration to git

dom: until we know what process needs to be followed to get this approved, it
won't be approved

<fjh> Waiting for pull requests to be accepted - who is doing this?

<fjh> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0076.html][39]

<fjh> Test case submission, approval process (and licensing requirements)
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0002.html][40]

dom: there was a discussion of having someone from each WG having commit privs

... and having someone else from the WG review each testcase before pulling

... this has been a fluctuating conversation, so it's been difficult for me

[ Discussion about Test Case evolution v. Recommendation evolution ]

fjh: i think it's good to have testcases in the repository

... but we know where the testcases are coming from since anssik has been
doing all the curating for a while

... are the testcases in a suitable state to pull into the GIT repo?

anssik: i thought there was a review process

... so someone other than the submitter should review the tests

<dom> battery is from anssik, vibration from robin, ambient light and
proximity from marcosc,

dom: i reviewed the battery tests from anssik a while ago

... and the vibration tests from robin a while ago

... i don't know that anyone has looked at ambient light/proximity

anssik: i initially looked at the tests when marcos submitted them

<dom> **ACTION:** Dom to do a last check on battery and vibration test cases
before merging in github master [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03
-dap-minutes.html#action03][41]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-641 - Do a last check on battery and vibration test
cases before merging in github master [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due
2013-07-10].

anssik: now that we have an implementation out, we could actually harness

... iirc, marcos didn't use idlharness, but basically drafted something
similar

<dom> **ACTION:** Dom to review proximity and ambient light test cases
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html#action04][42]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-642 - Review proximity and ambient light test cases
[on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-07-10].

<dom> [https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/127][43]

anssik: i think you can use +1'ing on github

<dom> [https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/126][44]

<dom> [https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/125][45]

<dom> [https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/124][46]

fjh: i'm confused about tests that aren't easily visible in the repo

... i thought the concern was about improving visibility

dom: yes, ideally the testcases would be merged

<fjh> **ACTION:** anssik to review Ambient Light and Proximity test cases by
Sept [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-
minutes.html#action05][47]]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-643 - Review Ambient Light and Proximity test cases
by Sept [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2013-07-10].

dom: i don't think there's any particular hurry

... they should be merged when we exit CR

... it's clear we need a plan to have them reviewed

<fjh> Test case submission, approval process (and licensing requirements)
[http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0002.html][40]

fjh: i don't know if W3C is enforcing licensing for contributions

dom: the licensing is only problematic for non WG contributors

... which hasn't been a problem for our WG

### Implementation status

<fjh> Request for implementation status, [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public
/public-device-apis/2013May/0069.html][48]

anssik: we're currently working to get Chrome for Android's HTML Media Capture
updated

... it seems we're reaching consensus

... so we'll get the patches upstreamed

... once that happens, i can update you on that

fjh: what consensus is needed?

<anssik> [https://codereview.chromium.org/14758008/][49]

anssik: there was concern from Google that it would break existing content

... we reached a conclusion that we could have an implementation strategy that
retains backwards compat with existing code

### Action Review

<fjh> ACTION-523?

<trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to work on test cases for battery,
vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523][50]

<fjh> ACTION-621?

<trackbot> ACTION-621 -- Anssi Kostiainen to create test cases for HTML Media
Capture -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621][51]

<fjh> ACTION-637?

<trackbot> ACTION-637 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to arrange for DAP charter
extension, per [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0078.html][52] -- due 2013-06-12 -- OPEN

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/637][53]

<fjh> ACTION-625?

<trackbot> ACTION-625 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to move DAP tests to Git,
with help from others as needed -- due 2013-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/625][54]

<fjh> close ACTION-625

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-625 Move DAP tests to Git, with help from others as
needed.

<fjh> close ACTION-635?

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-635 Check on Media Capture TPAC F2F plans.

<fjh> close ACTION-636

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-636 Send public list regarding consensus regarding
charter extension.

<fjh> close ACTION-638

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-638 Review webapps approach to reviewing test cases.

<fjh> ISSUE-128?

<trackbot> ISSUE-128 -- Need more description on how bandwidth should be
estimated -- open

<trackbot> [http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/128][55]

### Other Business

anssik: i'll be on vacation during the summer

fjh: i'm canceling July 31

... but i'll cancel other calls when there's isn't content for meetings

<Zakim> dom, you wanted to ask about August

dom: i can't remember if we tend to cancel in August

fjh: i don't think we did

... it depends on the makeup of the group

... some are in the US, some aren't

... some are on vacation, some aren't

... i'm hoping to have an agenda for TPAC to give people time to make travel
decisions

... dom, are you away in August?

dom: i'll be away a couple of weeks at the end

fjh: anssik, you're back?

anssik: i'm back August 10th

fjh: if Cathy and Rich are available, maybe it's worth having a call to move
that spec forward

dcheng3: i agree, it would be good to have calls to tackle the topics that
have been lagging behind

... i won't take many holidays in August, maybe a week

fjh: we won't make decisions without the right people on calls

... i guess i won't make CfCs in August

... thanks all

... if people want to send Regrets to the Member List

... that could help me

### Adjourn

fjh: thanks everyone for your time

... see you next week, if we have a call

## Summary of Action Items

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** anssik to review Ambient Light and Proximity test cases
by Sept [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-
minutes.html#action05][47]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** Dom to do a last check on battery and vibration test
cases before merging in github master [recorded in
[http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html#action03][41]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** Dom to review proximity and ambient light test cases
[recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html#action04][42]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** fjh to respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy concerns in
Proximity, Light [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-
minutes.html#action02][38]]

**[NEW]** **ACTION:** fjh to send Vibration CR CfC and make transition request
once LC disposition complete [recorded in [http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-
minutes.html#action01][24]]


[End of minutes]

* * *

Minutes formatted by David Booth's [scribe.perl][56] version 1.135 ([CVS
log][57])

$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $

   [1]: http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home

   [2]: http://www.w3.org/

   [3]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jul/0003.html

   [4]: http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-irc

   [5]: #agenda

   [6]: #item01

   [7]: #item02

   [8]: #item03

   [9]: #item04

   [10]: #item05

   [11]: #item06

   [12]: #item07

   [13]: #item08

   [14]: #item09

   [15]: #item10

   [16]: #item11

   [17]: #ActionSummary

   [18]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0018.html

   [19]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/att-0016/minutes-2013-06-05.html

   [20]: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-vibration-20130523/

   [21]: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-
vibration-20130523/doc/

   [22]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0010.html

   [23]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0014.html

   [24]: http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html#action01

   [25]: http://www.w3.org/2011/07/DeviceAPICharter

   [26]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0015.html

   [27]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0009.html

   [28]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0028.html

   [29]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0008.html

   [30]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Apr/0043.html

   [31]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/DeviceLightEvent

   [32]: http://anssiko.github.io/light/

   [33]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=842952

   [34]: http://www.w3.org/Privacy/

   [35]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/DeviceLightEvent
#Gecko-specific_notes

   [36]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0046.html

   [37]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jun/0012.html

   [38]: http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html#action02

   [39]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0076.html

   [40]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013Jul/0002.html

   [41]: http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html#action03

   [42]: http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html#action04

   [43]: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/127

   [44]: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/126

   [45]: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/125

   [46]: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/124

   [47]: http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html#action05

   [48]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0069.html

   [49]: https://codereview.chromium.org/14758008/

   [50]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523

   [51]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621

   [52]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-
apis/2013May/0078.html

   [53]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/637

   [54]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/625

   [55]: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/128

   [56]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

   [57]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/