See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 13 June 2012
<scribe> ScribeNick: fjh
Publishing moratoria, 2H2012 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2012May/0000.html
19 June webinos launch, http://webinos.org/launch-day
No DAP teleconference on 4 July 2012 (also is US holiday), and no teleconference on 18 July 2012. DAP F2F 10-12 July.
<Josh_Soref> Scribe: Josh_Soref
<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2012May/att-0301/minutes-2012-05-30.html
RESOLUTION: Approve minutes from 30 May
fjh: mounir submitted a proposal (Web Activities)
... from the list, it sounds like they aren't as far forward as they think they are
... 1. We should talk about how WebIntents and WebActivities are common and how they might be converged, a good topic for the F2F, as well as the list
... 2. We have the discussion of Contacts being in DAP vs System Apps as well as making it concrete with how to integrate with WebIntents, but are starting with Gallery first
... 3. We should get a FPWD of WebIntents published; I think we can do this before working through the WebActivities issue as it is a first draft that clearly reflects WebIntents through the title, brings awareness and possibly more participation, and reflects where we are. We clearly can expect changes and additional working drafts (and a possible title change).
jhawkins: this will be my first time as an Editor
... i need information about FPWD
... i'm ok with holding off for a couple of days
... i have a reply for their counter-proposal that i hope to send off today
fjh: the draft is a Web Intents draft
... there's nothing wrong with publishing now
... a minor concern is that it solicits feedback and review
... there's no reason not to
... it's a matter of how long it takes to do the next thing
... i'm of the impression it might take a little longer to figure things out
... maybe we should add a note in the Status of Document section acknowledging the counter proposal
jhawkins: i'd to get feedback from ArtB
fjh: i think we need to keep moving
jhawkins: i agree
... i'll send out my notes today
... and people can get my opinions
fjh: and you can talk to ArtB
jhawkins: i agree
fjh: i'd like to get it done
... we can use time at the F2F
... i'm not sure who will be attending
... i'm not sure if mounir will attend
jhawkins: are you concerned about lack of critical mass
fjh: it can't hurt to ask mozilla about attending
jhawkins: i'll make an attempt to ask
... but i'll note there isn't an open channel available
<Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to note that dougt investigated attending
fjh: anyone else have comments about Web Intents?
... i know Claes isn't on the call
<Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to note that i planned to send a response to mounir's proposal, but i'm backlogged by lots of other things
<fjh> Please complete attendance questionnaire: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/DAPJuly2012F2F/
fjh: it's good to know
<fjh> (results https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/DAPJuly2012F2F/results )
fjh: please complete whether you intend to attend or not
<fjh> Logistics: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/BurlingtonF2F2012
<fjh> Draft Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/F2F_Agenda_10-12_July_2012,_Burlington,_MA_USA
fjh: if you have questions about the agenda, please ask
... anyone have any comments now?
<fjh> Two additional calls before F2F, 20/27 June
fjh: there's a thread about file system
... and where do you put stuff
... i'm not sure the thread reached a conclusion
<Zakim> Josh_Soref, you wanted to note that flat file systems do not scale well and to stick around and hold my
Josh_Soref: if you are on a trip and take thousands of photos in three different cities, you want to be able to organize by city, a flat file system simply does not work
... tags may be like file folder, but whatever is done you need to organize and search does not work
jhawkins: you may have seen feedback from Steve VanDeBogart
... it's just a chrome extension api
... we want to wall it off from the web platform initially
... we need it elsewhere now
... our implementation of the api is more system level than jungkee's
... i like the intents based version
... i haven't looked into it as much as i'd like to
... it seems there are different levels of permissions
... that may warrant different apis
... the gallery level being more system
... needs more security
... whereas the intents version is safer
fjh: do you have a URL for the chrome extension?
<scribe> ACTION: jhawkins to send URL for gallery chrome extension to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - jhawkins
fjh: the Web Notification WG changed Feature Permissions to
... tie in with WebIDL?
... AnssiK do you know what's going on there?
AnssiK: anne rewrote the spec to comply with pubrules
... and there's been discussion
... apple contributed
fjh: they thought about permissions
... they added an attribute permitted/not
AnssiK: tied to a notifications model
... we should not worry about that
fjh: we should avoid spinning things out into new WGs
... it's clear we should be aware of permissions
... i think it's a topic we have to work through
lgombos: in the case of notifications
... the conclusion is that we can't ccc permisions
... i think generally we want to avoid
... permission requests
... and favor implicit consent
fjh: if we can avoid permissions, and use web intents, we should
... and we can roll web activities into that
<fjh> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/
fjh: it's unfortunate that darobin was unable to attend
... he had something come up at the last minute
... for Battery and Vibration
... we are in CR and we can go to PR soon
... AnssiK are we thinking Fall or Sooner?
... maybe i should do this offline, involving dsr and darobin
AnssiK: what are the blockers for progress?
... test suite
... and a conformance report
fjh: thank you, we need the test suite
... and formal interop
... we need to figure out the time frame for that
... the next step is to know who is doing what and when
... HTML MC
... i think we need to publish another Draft
... we could go to LC, but i think it's premature
... we need to figure out when to go to LC w/ it
... Network Permission APIs
... it's fairly simple
... we published a Draft in June
... but we can wait
... Proximity... FPWD - we don't have one
... we had activity, but it's calmed down
... i think we should do a FPWD
... i can't remember who the editor is
<fjh> Anssi
AnssiK: i think we should go for FPWD
... it has an issue of side-effects
fjh: i'll do a CfC for that
... it's good to have frequent publications
... any concern with having a FPWD for Proximity?
... i'm having trouble with ReSpec, i'm not sure if it's working?
AnssiK: it's looking fine for me
<dtran> no concern
AnssiK: I updated all my specs to use the latest ReSpec
<fjh> ACTION: fjh to start CfC for FPWD of proximity [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-541 - Start CfC for FPWD of proximity [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-06-20].
AnssiK: seems to work fine for me
fjh: i'll look into it later, it must be me
AnssiK: do a force-refresh
fjh: Contacts/Calendar
... we're kind of blocked on them
... i think we want to unblock them
... we were using Gallery as the first test with Web Intents
<fjh> Web Application Privacy Best Practices
<fjh> would like to progress to Note
<fjh> ACTION-470?
<trackbot> ACTION-470 -- Frederick Hirsch to update web application privacy best practices related to active consent -- due 2011-11-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/470
fjh: it has been around a long time
... i'd like to put out a CfC to publish it
<fjh> ACTION: fjh to review Web Application Privacy Best Practices, complete ACTION-470, put out CfC to publish as Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-542 - Review Web Application Privacy Best Practices, complete ACTION-470, put out CfC to publish as Note [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-06-20].
Josh_Soref: i'll try to review it at some point tomorrow
<fjh> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/open
fjh: i'd like to do this before the F2F
... i think darobin had an action to ask the Web Intents
Josh_Soref: i don't think we sent an email to the list
jhawkins: no, that's for me to do, i'll do that today
fjh: CfC for MC update
... brian isn't on the call
<fjh> ACTION-482?
<trackbot> ACTION-482 -- Josh Soref to contacts find() may be replaced with Intents -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/482
fjh: Josh_Soref you have a bunch with contacts
<fjh> ACTION-482?
<trackbot> ACTION-482 -- Josh Soref to contacts find() may be replaced with Intents -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/482
<fjh> ACTION-483?
<trackbot> ACTION-483 -- Josh Soref to send proposal to list for how Contacts will move forward -- due 2011-11-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/483
ACTION-482: this can be replaced by intents
<trackbot> ACTION-482 Contacts find() may be replaced with Intents notes added
Josh_Soref: close ACTION-482
<trackbot> ACTION-482 Contacts find() may be replaced with Intents closed
Josh_Soref: i worked with greg at DAP-Shenzhen on the intents api
... i thought we sent it out
... in which case the resolution is to point to the email
fjh: can we get it done before the F2f?
jhawkins: we can do that
<fjh> ACTION-491?
<trackbot> ACTION-491 -- Josh Soref to investigate using intents for Contacts, perhaps Calendar and Thermometer -- due 2011-11-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/491
fjh: it sounds the same
Josh_Soref: the general consensus is to do calendar after contacts
ACTION-491: Calendar happens after Contacts - because it's harder
<trackbot> ACTION-491 Investigate using intents for Contacts, perhaps Calendar and Thermometer notes added
ACTION-491: thermometer someone could throw up a demo intent
<trackbot> ACTION-491 Investigate using intents for Contacts, perhaps Calendar and Thermometer notes added
Josh_Soref: close ACTION-491
<trackbot> ACTION-491 Investigate using intents for Contacts, perhaps Calendar and Thermometer closed
fjh: Josh_Soref i thought you sent an example to the list about that
Josh_Soref: i think i talked it through in Shenzhen
fjh: should we be creating a thermometer API
Josh_Soref: no need for an actual spec for this one
... there's a question of whether everything should have a w3c spec
... this is one i think that can just be on web intents
... .org
<fjh> ACTION-489?
<trackbot> ACTION-489 -- Robin Berjon to prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) -- due 2011-11-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/489
fjh: i think that the shelving was all done
AnssiK: i think i've done all of those
<fjh> ACTION-489: shelving done
<trackbot> ACTION-489 Prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) notes added
<fjh> ACTION-489 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-489 Prepare Requirements, SysInfo, Messaging, Gallery for shelving (wait for text from Deepanshu for Reqs) closed
fjh: i don't know what UPnP is up to
... Cathy ?
... do we want to put it on the Agenda
Cathy: i think it depends on whether Claes and richt would be there
fjh: Claes said he'd call in
<Clarke> +1 for UPnP discussion
jhawkins: i'd be interested in talking about it
fjh: i think we should slot it in the agenda
<fjh> ACTION-516?
<trackbot> ACTION-516 -- Josh Soref to propose Security Considerations section on SSL for Intents sepc -- due 2012-03-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/516
Josh_Soref: i should have sent an email then
... it's basically a simple email
<fjh> ACTION: fjh to check with Josh Soref on actions next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-dap-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-543 - Check with Josh Soref on actions next week [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2012-06-20].
<fjh> ACTION-519?
<trackbot> ACTION-519 -- Claes Nilsson to add a proposal for hidden disposition. -- due 2012-03-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/519
Josh_Soref: did we finish that off?
jhawkins: we have some ideas, we might be able to take this on
<fjh> ACTION-519: member:jhawkins - we have some ideas on this topic
<trackbot> ACTION-519 Add a proposal for hidden disposition. notes added
<fjh> ACTION-531?
<trackbot> ACTION-531 -- Robin Berjon to draft DAP charter version 3 -- due 2012-03-29 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/531
<fjh> ACTION-531 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-531 Draft DAP charter version 3 closed
fjh: anything i forgot?
Josh_Soref: i'll send out minutes tomorrow
fjh: if you have topics for the F2F Agenda, please feel free to add them to the wiki
... darobin and i will shuffle things around anyway
... if you have questions about logistics, please let me know
... please complete the questionaire attending or not
[ Adjourned ]
trackbot, end meeting