W3C

Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference

04 Aug 2010

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Frederick_Hirsch, Dzung_Tran, Suresh_Chitturi, John_Morris, Soonho_Lee, Neil_Stratford, Thomas_Roessler, erica_newland, Dominique_Hazael-Massieux, bryan_sullivan, Maria_Oteo, Daniel_Coloma, Richard_Tibbett, Dong-Young_Lee
Regrets
Robin_Berjon, Ingmar_Kliche, Alissa_Cooper
Chair
Frederick_Hirsch
Scribe
Suresh

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 04 August 2010

SribeNick: Suresh

<fjh> Erica is able to scribe next week, thanks

<dom> ScribeNick: Suresh

Announcements

<fjh> TPAC registration and information available (F2F after London F2F, 4-5 November )

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2010Jun/0001.html

<fjh> November 4-5 for a F2F

<dom> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/tpac2010dap/

<fjh> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/tpac2010dap/

Frederick: please register and fill in the questionnarie

<dom> Actual TPAC Registration form

<fjh> The questionnaire is for WG planning, and can be done anytime, and should be done even if you don't plan to attend.

<fjh> The TPAC registration is essential if you plan to attend

<dom> March 2011 F2F in Seoul

<fjh> March F2F, plan for Seoul Korea, http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/seoul-f2f-dates/

<fjh> dom notes hosting is confirmed

<fjh> Media Capture Working Draft published, 20 July - http://www.w3.org/TR/html-media-capture/

<fjh> Richard Tibbett now at Opera, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Aug/0006.html

Minutes review

<fjh> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/minutes#draft-minutes

<fjh> please review and indicate corrections

fjh: the approval is deferred until Robin is back from vacation

Privacy and Policy

Bryan: Are there minutes available from the privacy workshop?

<tlr> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/12-privacy-minutes.html

<tlr> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/13-privacy-minutes.html

<tlr> draft minutes

tlr: Summary report will be available soon

<dom> ACTION-210?

<trackbot> ACTION-210 -- Alissa Cooper to summarize and add issues to ruleset doc -- due 2010-07-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/210

fjh: the group needs to make a decision on how to move the ruleset forward

Bryan: we should continue to discuss this - will take some time to flesh it out...UI aspects

<dom> public-privacy@w3.org mailing list

fjh: next step is to wait for ACTION 210..

John: agreed, it needs more discussion

<fjh> privacy plan - outline issues (ACTION-210), propose means to address if possible, then WG decision on next steps

Suresh: Notification API?

<fjh> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/features/

<dom> list for discussions around the chartering of a Web Notification WG

fjh: suggest we remove Notifications from Feature draft at this time

<dom> Thread around the need for a URI for geolocation API in widgets

<dom> (I'm not sure if Notifications are very privacy-invasive in general)

<tlr> (+1 on that, just pointing out the general point)

<fjh> Suggest we avoid discussion of where URIs should be defined, currently keep in Features document so we can have text around the topic, and clarity

<dom> Call for Review: Rich Web Client Activity Proposal - Web Notification Working Group (Member-only)

<fjh> Also suggest we limit to APIs in DAP + Geoloc, as a starting point

tlr: FYI, notification work is being planned in a separate working group

<tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2010JulSep/0013.html (member-confidential link)

<dom> Proposed W3C Charter: Web Notification Working Group (until 2010-08-23) [public announcement]

fjh: re feature, what is our next steps?

dom: we need to be aware that there are exisiting feature classification, and make sure we take them as input for our work

<fjh> dom notes features can be used in various contexts, policy, widget, also potentially checkPermissions proposal, installable applications manifest

<fjh> ACTION: fjh to send notice on features draft to list and ask for help progressing [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-244 - Send notice on features draft to list and ask for help progressing [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-08-11].

<fjh> ACTION: fjh to provide notice on tpac questionnaire [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-245 - Provide notice on tpac questionnaire [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-08-11].

<Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask about WAC

fjh: does anyone know anything on how WAC plans to align with DAP's specs?
... back to Policy, if there is any input please provide it to help progress policy work

<fjh> I suggest members of this WG that are involved with WAC to make sure WAC is aware of WG API work and strive toward alignment

<bryan_sullivan> my comment re Web Notification WG proposal, this seems related to work that I lead in OMA and discussions we have had with HTML WG re Server-Sent Events and OMA Push (including SIP Push). I think this would be better handled as a new spec inside Webapps rather than a new group. AT&T would support this work, but joining another group is problematic.

<fjh> ACTION-218?

<trackbot> ACTION-218 -- Paddy Byers to provide proposal for feature architecture text regarding web and widgets cases for feature document -- due 2010-07-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/218

<fjh> ACTION-241?

<trackbot> ACTION-241 -- Frederick Hirsch to review and update policy requirements -- due 2010-07-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/241

<fjh> action-242?

<trackbot> ACTION-242 -- Paddy Byers to review and update policy requirements -- due 2010-07-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/242

Message API Status

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Aug/0005.html

<fjh> ACTION-222?

<trackbot> ACTION-222 -- Thomas -- -- Roessler to review the Messaging -- -- security section -- due 2010-08-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/222

<fjh> tlr notes will do today

<tlr> action-221?

<trackbot> ACTION-221 -- Maria Angeles Oteo to draft a security section for Messaging -- due 2010-07-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/221

fjh: we should publish FPWD

tlr: +1

+1 from Suresh

RESOLUTION: To publish FPWD of Messaging API - 10 Aug 2010

<dom> ACTION: Dom to request approval for FPWD for messaging and prepare publication [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-246 - Request approval for FPWD for messaging and prepare publication [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2010-08-11].

<fjh> ACTION: fjh to send transition request for Message API FPWD publication [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-247 - Send transition request for Message API FPWD publication [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2010-08-11].

<fjh> ACTION-247 will be done by Dom, reassign

SysInfo status

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Aug/0002.html

<fjh> Bryan will work on editorial items, anticipate completion mid-August

<fjh> ISSUE-92?

<trackbot> ISSUE-92 -- Sysinfo, permissions for get vs monitor; -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/92

<fjh> "Should the privacy prompts/indications for operators that are permanent (watch) vs one-shot (get) differ? "

<fjh> ACTION: jmorris to provide a proposal relevant to ISSUE-92, sysinfo privacy prompts for operators get vs watch [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-248 - Provide a proposal relevant to ISSUE-92, sysinfo privacy prompts for operators get vs watch [on John Morris - due 2010-08-11].

<dom> (wouldn't monitor be equivalent to get then?)

I see that there are no exceptions for monitor(), should we consider adding exceptions?

<dom> (I suggest sending this as a question to the editors before raising an issue)

<fjh> ISSUE: some properties of sysinfo are static so monitor might not make sense

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-96 - Some properties of sysinfo are static so monitor might not make sense ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/96/edit .

<fjh> action-203?

<trackbot> ACTION-203 -- Bryan Sullivan to add proposal from John Morris re buckets to sysinfo, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jun/0322.html -- due 2010-07-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/203

Suresh to send a note to the list re ISSUE-96

<fjh> action-211?

<trackbot> ACTION-211 -- Alissa Cooper to make proposal on list for sysinfo privacy section -- due 2010-07-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/211

<fjh> action-212?

<trackbot> ACTION-212 -- Bryan Sullivan to incorporate proposal from ACTION-211 into SysInfo draft -- due 2010-07-21 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/212

<fjh> action-211 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-211 Make proposal on list for sysinfo privacy section closed

<fjh> action-212 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-212 Incorporate proposal from ACTION-211 into SysInfo draft closed

<dom> (I think that's done; but Alissa will review it as part of ACTION-210)

<richt> correct. will review sysinfo after the edits

<fjh> Expect that ACTION-213 and ACTION-243 will be done after edits complete, Bryan please notify the WG when complete

<fjh> assume also for ACTION-214

Contacts API

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Aug/0007.html (richard)

<fjh> Richard plans to update over the next two weeks

<fjh> ACTION-215?

<trackbot> ACTION-215 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to write up issues with write/delete access for Contacts APIs -- due 2010-07-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/215

tlr: coordination between OMA CAB and IETF vCard

<fjh> tlr link on vcard4, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0142.html

<dom> Write-access difficulties (for contacts and other APIs) — for ACTION-215

tlr: OMA initial response was to have W3C align with OMA work
... we need to get IETF people involved as well

<richt> Agree with fjh. We will need another working draft for Contacts API and Contacts Writer API in the very near future, which was mentioned before and during the f2f.

<fjh> suggest we publish another WD in mid-August of Contacts without delay, then allow review of other materials etc. Need to think about when Last Call might happen

Bryan: I can facilitate the information from OMA CAB

<richt> I'd like to set a schedule for Last Call for Contacts.

<fjh> me too

<fjh> sounds to me that we risk a large delay in reaching DAP Contacts last call, given various other parties

<richt> ...and last call sooner rather than later, with inputs from vcard, oma and any other external groups before that time. (1 or 2 months from now?)

<fjh> suresh notes that OMA might provide an official liaison to DAP

<fjh> suresh notes that OMA schema is much more detailed, closer to vcard than DAP contacts

<richt> I'd like input from OMA, vcard on the public mailing list and propose to set the schedule for last call in one month.

<dom> +1 on intermediate draft showing removal of write access

tlr: based on the discussion, I would support publishling a ordinary public draft

<fjh> plan to publish WD when current round of edits is done, then review convergence and plan schedule for Last Call

<bryan_sullivan> Link to the OMA CAB address book schema spec: http://member.openmobilealliance.org/ftp/Public_documents/COM/COM-CAB/Permanent_documents/OMA-SUP-XSD_cab_address_book-V1_0-20100309-D.zip

<Zakim> richt, you wanted to ask whether we are just publishing Contacts API working draft (not writer api)?

<tlr> bryan, is the spec relating to this XSD available?

<tlr> in fact...

<fjh> richard asks whether we want to publish writer at same time as contacts, so material is lost

<tlr> that xsd defines an element <address-book> and doesn't say anything about the data model

that's right, the schema is still TBD

<dom> (I'm not sure about publishing contacts writer, but I wouldn't object to it)

i will try to send the link to the actual spec or maybe better to have it through the OMA liaison

<tlr> suresh, thanks

<fjh> ACTION-215?

<trackbot> ACTION-215 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to write up issues with write/delete access for Contacts APIs -- due 2010-07-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/215

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0112.html

<scribe> ACTION: Suresh to review OMA CAB, vCard work and provide a summary on how we may progress [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-249 - Review OMA CAB, vCard work and provide a summary on how we may progress [on Suresh Chitturi - due 2010-08-11].

<bryan_sullivan> Further link to the spec which describes the CAB address book schema as an object accessible via an OMA XML Document Management Service (XDMS): http://member.openmobilealliance.org/ftp/Public_documents/COM/COM-CAB/Permanent_documents/OMA-TS-CAB_XDMS-V1_0-20100722-D.zip

<fjh> ACTION: richard add issue to contact writer corresponding to Dom's email for ACTION-215, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0112.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-250 - Add issue to contact writer corresponding to Dom's email for ACTION-215, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0112.html [on Richard Tibbett - due 2010-08-11].

<dom> ACTION-230?

<trackbot> ACTION-230 -- Wojciech Maslowski to specify "add to calendar" based on ICS-objects opening -- due 2010-08-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/230

<fjh> ISSUE: Write-access difficulties (in contacts and other APIs), see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0112.html

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-97 - Write-access difficulties (in contacts and other APIs), see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0112.html ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/97/edit .

<dom> (regarding contacts, there was also discussion around <input type="contacts"/>)

<dom> ACTION-224?

<trackbot> ACTION-224 -- Wojciech Maslowski to look into <input type="contacts"> options for contacts API -- due 2010-08-05 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/224

fjh: the plan is to publish a read-only draft in mid-August after edits, and FPWD of contact writer later

<richt> correct, dom, but nothing much to say on that on this call :-(

Calendar

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0142.html

<fjh> calConnect, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0143.html

<fjh> OASIS WS-Calendaring

tlr: no active work in IETF re calendar

<fjh> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ws-calendar

the open question is how can we be compatible with other calender services over the wire

<fjh> tlr notes will need use cases for lunisolar calendars and help on working on that if needed

<fjh> ACTION-227?

<trackbot> ACTION-227 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to compare iCalendar recurrence model with current Calendar API -- due 2010-07-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/227

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0115.html

+1 to work on the gregorian for the moment

<richt> we have a way forward now on Calendar with the resolution to continue with what we have now (smaller scope than lunisolar support)...

<richt> ...and having a TimezonedDate proposal that is nearly complete

dom: we need to take a look at my comments...

Capture

<fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Aug/0004.html

<richt> dom, we do need to address your comments on Calendar Recurrence rules. Will do that on the mailing list.

<fjh> "how do we properly reference

<fjh> external IDLs (after we moved e.g. FormatData into external spec

<fjh> HTMLMEDIACAPTURE)?"

<dom> (I'll respond to him on the list)

<fjh> ACTION-235?

<trackbot> ACTION-235 -- Ingmar Kliche to polish Media Capture -- due 2010-07-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/235

<richt> RE: referencing external widls. perhaps we should be defining modules as in the WebIDL spec. AFAICS, modules can be referenced across specs like ::module1::submodule1 (etc)

Action and issue review

<fjh> ACTION-210 stays open

<fjh> ACTION-211?

<trackbot> ACTION-211 -- Alissa Cooper to make proposal on list for sysinfo privacy section -- due 2010-07-21 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/211

<fjh> ACTION-213, ACTION-243, ACTION-214 open, await update of Sysinfo before review

<fjh> ACTION-216?

<trackbot> ACTION-216 -- WonSuk Lee to reformulate gallery API to look like contacts API -- due 2010-07-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/216

<fjh> ACTION-218?

<trackbot> ACTION-218 -- Paddy Byers to provide proposal for feature architecture text regarding web and widgets cases for feature document -- due 2010-07-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/218

<fjh> ACTION-222?

<trackbot> ACTION-222 -- Thomas Roessler to review the Messaging security section -- due 2010-08-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/222

<fjh> today

<fjh> ACTION-238?

<trackbot> ACTION-238 -- Bryan Sullivan to inform OMA groups of our status -- due 2010-07-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/238

<fjh> Bryan will provide an update

<fjh> ISSUE-92?

<trackbot> ISSUE-92 -- Sysinfo, permissions for get vs monitor; -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/92

<fjh> ISSUE-78?

<trackbot> ISSUE-78 -- Capture has a minimisation problem with EXIF data (e.g. it could be Geotagged) -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/78

<dom> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-html-media-capture-20100720/#security has text around it

<fjh> ISSUE-78: http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-html-media-capture-20100720/#security has text around it

<trackbot> ISSUE-78 Capture has a minimisation problem with EXIF data (e.g. it could be Geotagged) notes added

<dom> "For instance, embedding the user's location in a captured media metadata (e.g. EXIF) might transmit more private data than the user might be expecting"

<dom> "Implementations must not embed information in the EXIF header which could be used for non-intended purposes (such as geolocation or device id). " http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/Overview-API.html#security

<fjh> ISSUE-78: draft security text is "For instance, embedding the user's location in a captured media metadata (e.g. EXIF) might transmit more private data than the user might be expecting"

<trackbot> ISSUE-78 Capture has a minimisation problem with EXIF data (e.g. it could be Geotagged) notes added

jmorris: perhaps a description in the privacy/security may help

<fjh> ACTION: jmorris to review privacy text related to ISSUE-78 for capture [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-251 - Review privacy text related to ISSUE-78 for capture [on John Morris - due 2010-08-11].

<fjh> action251: "Implementations must not embed information in the EXIF header which could be used for non-intended purposes (such as geolocation or device id). " http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/Overview-API.html#security

<dom> ACTION-251: review both in html-media-capture and media-capture-api (current texts differ)

<trackbot> ACTION-251 Review privacy text related to ISSUE-78 for capture notes added

<dom> action-251: "Implementations must not embed information in the EXIF header which could be used for non-intended purposes (such as geolocation or device id). " http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/Overview-API.html#security

<trackbot> ACTION-251 Review privacy text related to ISSUE-78 for capture notes added

<dom> ACTION-251: draft Capture security text is "For instance, embedding the user's location in a captured media metadata (e.g. EXIF) might transmit more private data than the user might be expecting"

<trackbot> ACTION-251 Review privacy text related to ISSUE-78 for capture notes added

<fjh> ACTION-251: draft Capture security text is "For instance, embedding the user’s location in a captured media metadata (e.g. EXIF) might transmit more private data than the user might be expecting"

<trackbot> ACTION-251 Review privacy text related to ISSUE-78 for capture notes added

<fjh> ISSUE-36?

<trackbot> ISSUE-36 -- How far can we go with domain based trust model given constraints of HTML5 security model -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/36

<dom> (this was raised back in November 2009 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/att-0017/minutes-2009-11-02.html#item04 )

<fjh> bryan notes how do you determine the origin, for browser clear, for widget less clear, interaction of models

<fjh> ISSUE-26?

<trackbot> ISSUE-26 -- How to refer to API -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/26

<fjh> ISSUE-26: WG agrees to use URIs for features to refer to APIs

<trackbot> ISSUE-26 How to refer to API notes added

dom: with features we can close issue 26

<fjh> ISSUE-26 closed

<trackbot> ISSUE-26 How to refer to API closed

<dom> ISSUE-26: http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/features/ API features draft

<trackbot> ISSUE-26 How to refer to API notes added

<fjh> Bryan notes that need positive statements to enable testability

Bryan: re EXIF minimization problem, we could say that the implemention should expose "these" data as opposed to "only these"

tlr: not comfortable controlling what gets exposed or not...and support jmorris idea of describing privacy related text

Bryan: it was only a suggestion, was just tyring to say how to make it a useful requirement

<dom> regrets from me for next week

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Dom to request approval for FPWD for messaging and prepare publication [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: fjh to provide notice on tpac questionnaire [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: fjh to send notice on features draft to list and ask for help progressing [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: fjh to send transition request for Message API FPWD publication [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: jmorris to provide a proposal relevant to ISSUE-92, sysinfo privacy prompts for operators get vs watch [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jmorris to review privacy text related to ISSUE-78 for capture [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: richard add issue to contact writer corresponding to Dom's email for ACTION-215, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Jul/0112.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Suresh to review OMA CAB, vCard work and provide a summary on how we may progress [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/04-dap-minutes.html#action06]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2009-03-02 03:52:20 $