W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-device-apis@w3.org > December 2009

RE: UI for enabling webcam use from untrusted content

From: Nick Lothian <nlothian@educationau.edu.au>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:54:08 +1030
To: "public-device-apis@w3.org" <public-device-apis@w3.org>
Message-ID: <C61BBB9C527C5A49A8C9069ABC4B005F15C82DDEE9@eduau-mail.eduau.local>
Is there a difference between "displaying the video viewfinder to the user" and "recording and uploading video to a remote website"?

Should there be? It may be that I just don't like the "recording" terminology.

With local HTML5 application there are a number of scenarios where local use of the camera and/or microphone is useful, but they aren't strictly "recording" - ie, the video is manipulated locally and then thrown away.

I think asking for device permission is still a requirement in these cases, but there is a difference between this and when the video is sent to a remote site.

Nick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-device-apis-request@w3.org [mailto:public-device-apis-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Tran, Dzung D
> Sent: Thursday, 10 December 2009 8:45 AM
> To: Ian Hickson; Robin Berjon
> Cc: public-device-apis@w3.org
> Subject: RE: UI for enabling webcam use from untrusted content
>
> > Ian wrote:
> >
> > I agree, but what UI would you propose to let the user distinguish
> Google
> > Video Chat from Hostile Evil Corp?
> >
> > Arve Bersvendsen wrote:
> >
> >   The problem here is if http://seemingly-innocent.example.com really
> >   belongs to http://sneaky-industrial-espionage.example.com and start
> >   recording company-internal meetings without your knowledge.
>
> Just a thought,
>
> I think this is orthogonal issue to the capture API. The same problem
> applies to any type of data such as credit card info, login password,
> ..etc. If the user got hi-jacked by some evil corp, then how would the
> user knows to turn off his camera or provide his credit card info.
>
> UI could be as simple as the <video> tag:
>
>              +---------------------------+
>              |                           |
>              |                           |
>              |     ( ) Video Chat        |
>              |          with Mom         |
>              |                           |
>              |                           |
>              +---------------------------+
>              | ( ) stop     * recording..|
>              +---------------------------+
>
> Another issue is what happen when it is covered by another application
> or hidden by a TAB page.
>
> Thanks
> Dzung Tran,
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Hickson [mailto:ian@hixie.ch]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 02:43 AM
> To: Robin Berjon; Tran, Dzung D
> Cc: public-device-apis@w3.org
> Subject: Re: UI for enabling webcam use from untrusted content
>
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009, Robin Berjon wrote:
> >
> > A quick few notes, I've been thinking along similar lines.
> >
> > First: distinguishing audio and video is sort of a geek approach to
> > things.
>
> Oh I didn't mean to imply that we would actually show video and audio
> options separately. I just meant those as two different devices. If it
> helps, consider instead a built-in iSight vs an external camera, or a
> webcam and a joystick controller, or an infrared port, or a CNC lathe,
> or
> digital train controller, or a serial port, or a USB fishtank, or
> anything
> else we might want to expose one day.
>
>
> > Another related note: how many "devices" (by which I mean things that
> > the user perceives as possibly grouped) are we likely to ever want to
> > enable simultaneously?
>
> The question is how should we handle it when a Web page asks for more
> than
> we expected any page would ever ask.
>
>
> > The approach I've been mulling over is an enhanced infobar of sorts.
> If
> > the author requests Video (in the AV sense) you get a regular infobar
> > and have to drag (or perhaps just click the icon) of the AV abstract
> > device. There can be a little ▾ next to the icon providing further
> > options to select a specific input amongst many, or disable parts of
> it
> > if it's a conceptual device grouping many. If discarded, the bar goes
> > away. If accepted, it sticks in a form that shows that same icon with
> an
> > active Rec symbol and the appropriate affordance to turn it off
> > (including turning it off temporarily, i.e. muting). If a further
> device
> > is requested while one is active, and it is also a device that needs
> to
> > be continuously shown, then the infobar+ appears below the
> "devicebar",
> > but activating a device closes it and the device's icon moves up to
> the
> > devicebar (possibly with an animation).
> >
> > It's a little convoluted to explain, but I think it would be
> reasonably
> > straightforward to understand visually as the devicebar would appear
> > only upon device activation, would stay only so long as there are
> active
> > devices, and extra devices clearly get added to it. Assuming it's
> > possible to grant permanent access to a page/origin, the devicebar
> would
> > reappear. The more I think of it the more that's actually something
> I'd
> > like to already have for Location.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing browser vendors' opinions on this.
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2009, Tran, Dzung D wrote:
> >
> > I don't think the user thinks in that way when it come to video chat.
> > Just take the example of Google Video Chat. The user knows that he is
> > going to video chat with his friend. He just click on his friend name
> > and the video window shows up with his friend and they start a
> > conversation.
> >
> > IMHO, All this with enable/disable microphone and webcam devices is a
> > user experience problem.
>
> I agree, but what UI would you propose to let the user distinguish
> Google
> Video Chat from Hostile Evil Corp?
>
> --
> Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.
> fL
> http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._
> ,.
> Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-
> .;.'

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Received on Wednesday, 9 December 2009 22:24:53 GMT

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