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RE: qnames with - in cwm

From: Seaborne, Andy <andy.seaborne@hp.com>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:07:22 +0100
Message-ID: <E864E95CB35C1C46B72FEA0626A2E808031A94F7@0-mail-br1.hpl.hp.com>
To: Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
Cc: public-cwm-bugs@w3.org

Tim,

I was more thinking of non-English letters, rather than the
non-alphanumerics.  In the N3 subsystem of Jena, I chose to allow the full
range of XML 1.1 Names where it didn't conflict with any other syntax mainly
for the accented and non-English characters.

	Andy

-------- Original Message --------
> From: Tim Berners-Lee <mailto:timbl@w3.org>
> Date: 17 May 2004 02:17
> 
> Andy, Dave,
> 
> I think this is a good point. Mind you, I don't really like having such
> a wealth of punctuation inside names.
> 
> I don't think the user of a language is helped a lot by having the
> choice between
> maple_syrup-count and maple-syrup.count and so on.  I think it is
> liable to lead to more uncaught errors and more user confusion. It is
> just that XML does it. So we have to be compatible - but we don't have
> to encourage it. After all,  one can always use the <uri> form.
> 
>   N3 uses punctuation for semantics.  XML doesn't have to worry about it
> because it uses angle brackets around tag names.   The "."  is very
> common parlance for a path step, and allowing   ?x.mother.age  makes a
> lot of sense to OO types.  I could imagine restricting it to
> ?x!mother!age  but its looks weirder to the uninitiated.
> 
> The - issue I don't feel so strongly about.  It may be OK to force - as
> an operator, if we put operators into N3, to be separated by
> whitespace.
> 
> maple-current = maple-started - maple-finished.
> 
> Tim
> 
> On May 5, 2004, at 5:16, Seaborne, Andy wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Would now be a good time to go beyond a-z alphabetics in qnames and
> > align with XML 1.1 Names and Tokens where possible?
> > 
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#sec-common-syn
> > 
> > 	Andy
> > 
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > > From: public-cwm-bugs-request@w3.org <>
> > > Date: 4 May 2004 10:40
> > > 
> > > I was not sure where to send this, since I consider it more a
> > > Notation3 bug than a CWM bug.
> > > http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Notation3 
> > > doesn't say
> > > to send to any particular list.  Maybe not here but public-cwm-talk?
> > > 
> > > I noticed you've switched the definition of Notation3's
> > > specification in
> > > April, more about this in other messages.
> > > 
> > > http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Notation3 says:
> > > [[
> > > Identifier munging
> > > 
> > > This syntax does not allow minus signs in identifiers, whereas the
> > > XML encoding for RDF does. ]] 
> > > 
> > > The reference implementation of N3, cwm has been more generous
> > > (in a checked out dev.w3.org/2000/10/swap):
> > > 
> > > $ grep -i A-Z *|grep -i qname
> > > rdfn3.g:    token QNAME:
> > > r'([a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z0-9_-]*)?:[a-zA-Z0-9_-]+'
> > > rdfn3_yapps.py:            ('QNAME',
> > > '([a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z0-9_-]*)?:[a-zA-Z0-9_-]+'),
> > > relaxNG.g:    token QName : r'[a-zA-Z0-9_-]+:[a-zA-Z0-9_-]+' # @@???
> > > 
> > > and in notation3.py:
> > >   _notQNameChars = "\t\r\n !\"#$%&'()*.,+/;<=>?@[\\]^`{|}~"
> > > # Assume anything else valid qname :-/
> > > (as used in 'def qname' later)
> > > 
> > > All of these would allow foo:bar-baz
> > > 
> > > Trivial test:
> > > 
> > > $ cat > t.n3
> > > @prefix foo: <http://example.org/> .
> > > foo:bar foo:baz foo:bar-baz .
> > > $ cwm t.n3
> > > #Processed by Id: cwm.py,v 1.148 2004/03/21 04:24:32 timbl Exp
> > >         #    using base file:/home/cmdjb/w3c/2000/10/swap/t.n3
> > > 
> > > #  Notation3 generation by
> > > #       notation3.py,v 1.153 2004/03/21 04:24:35 timbl Exp
> > > 
> > > #   Base was: file:/home/cmdjb/w3c/2000/10/swap/t.n3
> > > 
> > >     <http://example.org/bar>     <http://example.org/baz>
> > > <http://example.org/bar-baz> .
> > > 
> > > #ENDS
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The newer http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/grammar/n3.n3
> > > CVS 1.9 2003/10/30 22:41:34 says
> > >   qname bnf:matches
> > > "(([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z0-9_]*)?:)?([a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z0-9_]*)?";
> > > 
> > > I think it would be a good idea to allow - inside qnames.
> > > You can other
> > > uses by whitespace and let people avoid CamelCase inside names if
> > > they don't like that. 
> > > 
> > > I think some people have already been using - in names, relying on
> > > cwm accepting it.  (I had a quick look and, for example, Jena's N3
> > > parser accepts it).  I'm tempted to add it to Turtle to match what
> > > people are using and want to use. 
> > > 
> > > Dave
Received on Monday, 17 May 2004 11:07:46 UTC

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