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Re: Model / Syntax Updates

From: Yakov Shafranovich <yakov-ietf@shaftek.org>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 12:46:28 -0500
Message-ID: <CAPQd5oTXp5F5UVuE0BNm1vyrm0OovhQp7hE-pXKz7NN-YFihUQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Cc: Jeni Tennison <jeni@jenitennison.com>, W3C CSV on the Web Working Group <public-csv-wg@w3.org>
If there are any suggestions towards updating RFC 4180 with I18N
considerations in mind, that may be useful as well.

Thanks,
Yakov

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>
> On 24 Feb 2014, at 18:15 , Jeni Tennison <jeni@jenitennison.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ivan,
>>
>> Yes, good point about regions. I'll rephrase to "a set of rows and columns and all the fields within the rows for those columns" or something.
>>
>> Similarly, good catch about I18N. What's the right way to approach the I18N people?
>
> Well, when we feel it is o.k., we will have to contact the I18N WG:
>
> Chair: Addison Phillips, addison@lab126.com, and the staff contact Richard Ishida, ishida@w3.org.
>
> It is good if we do it on time, because they usually have lots of things on their plate. But I guess that asking specific questions might help.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ivan
>
>
>> Jeni
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> From: Ivan Herman ivan@w3.org
>> Reply: Ivan Herman ivan@w3.org
>> Date: 24 February 2014 at 09:51:09
>> To: Jeni Tennison jeni@jenitennison.com
>> Subject:  Re: Model / Syntax Updates
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jeni,
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> one specific technical question... In 2.2 an annotated region
>>> seems to be any loose set of fields, without any further restriction.
>>> Ie, an annotated region is not necessarily a tabular sub-area
>>> within the whole table, it can be a loose set of fields without
>>> any structure. I wonder whether, for practical reasons, it is
>>> not worth defining a tabular region, that could be mapped, logically,
>>> onto a tabular data of its own.
>>>
>>> I was also wondering about the I18N aspects of the definition.
>>> For example, the text says that to fix up CSV files that have blank
>>> columns, the parser should fix this up by indexing the column
>>> names. Your text does not say, but the examples suggest that this
>>> is done in a left-to-right manner at least in the syntax; I am not
>>> sure that would be o.k. with right-to-left writing systems.
>>> Possible constraints on the column names should also be cross-checked
>>> with other writing systems. In general, we should probably have
>>> the text reviewed by I18N people early on in the process (and not
>>> wait until the text gets closer to the publication when it is always
>>> more difficult to change).
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> Ivan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 Feb 2014, at 19:23 , Jeni Tennison
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Following the call last week, I have made some updates to the
>>> "Syntax for Tabular Data on the Web" document at
>>>>
>>>> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/syntax/
>>>>
>>>> Namely:
>>>>
>>>> * I have separated out three levels of data model:
>>>> * a core data model which is just tables/columns/rows/fields
>>>> * an annotated data model in which each of these can be annotated
>>>> * a grouped data model in which there are multiple tables in a
>>> group
>>>>
>>>> * I have stated that the ordering of columns is significant in
>>> the core data model
>>>>
>>>> I have defined the annotated data model extremely loosely:
>>> it just says that tables, columns, rows, fields and regions can
>>> be annotated, but it doesn't say anything about what those annotations
>>> might look like (eg that one of the annotations might be the *type*
>>> of a value). I think the direction I'd like to take that is to retain
>>> this very loose definition and then state that there are certain
>>> annotations (eg 'type', 'unique') that are understood by particular
>>> types of applications (eg validators, converters) in particular
>>> ways. Does that seem like a reasonable approach?
>>>>
>>>> I haven't made any attempt to tackle the syntax for annotated
>>> or grouped tables as yet.
>>>>
>>>> Jeni
>>>> --
>>>> Jeni Tennison
>>>> http://www.jenitennison.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----
>>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>>> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>> mobile: +31-641044153
>>> GPG: 0x343F1A3D
>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - signature.asc, 210 bytes
>>
>> --
>> Jeni Tennison
>> http://www.jenitennison.com/
>>
>
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153
> GPG: 0x343F1A3D
> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 24 February 2014 17:47:25 UTC

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